# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/381 "2023-06-29T01:54:53Z")
Can you say SLAPP counter suit? Monster damages in the offing against Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/382 "2023-06-29T09:14:20Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > The jury found that the evidence does not make it likely that she had technically been “raped” under the narrow definition they were using in court. I thought it was that she couldn’t definitively say whether he penetrated her with his penis (rape) or his finger (sexual assault) so they went with the lesser charge. “Likelihood” isn’t the relevant element. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/383 "2023-06-29T13:23:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “Likelihood” isn’t the relevant element. In a civil trial it’s the preponderance of the evidence. So, if you have a line of 50% probability of whether the evidence favors one or the other, if you’re a hair over or under, that’s how it’s determined. On that point, it was under 50%. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/384 "2023-06-29T13:53:13Z")
To show that likelihood **is** the relevant element: > **[Evidentiary Standards and Burdens of Proof in New York - Sullivan Papain...](https://www.triallaw1.com/evidentiary-standards-and-burdens-of-proof-in-new-york/)** > > If you have been injured in New York, you may be wondering what the burden of proof is to prove that the defendant was at fault for the accident. > In a civil lawsuit, such as a personal injury claim, the New York courts abide by a different evidentiary standard. Instead of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, an accident victim’s attorney must establish that the defendant is more likely than not at fault for the damages in question, based on a preponderance of the evidence. This is a much lower burden of proof. Preponderance of the evidence means the facts the plaintiff has proven that the defendants are more likely than not at fault. While that’s discussing who is liable for an accident, it’s the general standard to apply liability in any civil case. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/385 "2023-06-29T15:50:23Z")
I stand corrected. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/386 "2023-06-29T23:06:56Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > In a civil trial it’s the preponderance of the evidence. But the problem was that for this specific distinction there was no evidence to be preponderated over. The only evidence was her testimony about the rape and she said she didn’t know. So even if one might look at Trump and think “Yeah there is probably at least a 51% chance he used his mini mushroom” This isn’t proved by the plaintiff’s evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/387 "2023-06-29T23:46:27Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But the problem was that for this specific distinction there was no evidence to be preponderated over. The only evidence was her testimony about the rape and she said she didn’t know. That **is** what the jury would have considered, I expect, which is why they drew the conclusion they made (as you said). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/388 "2023-06-29T23:48:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Thank you. You’re welcome, I’m not a lawyer but I do follow lawyers online because the law is fascinating at times (and effects all of us whether we like it or not), and I pick up a thing or two on a rare occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2023, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/389 "2023-07-03T13:34:32Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > But the problem was that for this specific distinction there was no evidence to be preponderated over. The only evidence was her testimony about the rape and she said she didn’t know. So even if one might look at Trump and think “Yeah there is probably at least a 51% chance he used his mini mushroom” This isn’t proved by the plaintiff’s evidence. As you pointed out, testimony _is_ evidence. And when one side presents evidence and the other side presents no evidence, what’s a jury to do? Trump couldn’t even be bothered to show up and defend himself. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/390 "2023-07-11T22:08:22Z")
BREAKING: The DOJ will _not_ represent Trump in the other Carroll case: > ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/391 "2023-07-11T22:25:29Z")
Good. Why the hell should DOJ involve themselves in a lawsuit that was clearly, unambiguously nothing to do with the running of government? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/392 "2023-07-19T14:14:25Z")
> **[Judge rejects Trump’s request for new trial in E Jean Carroll civil case](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/19/trump-request-new-trial-e-jean-carroll-case-rejected)** > > Judge says jury did not reach a ‘seriously erroneous result’ in finding Trump liable for sexually abusing and defaming the writer " A federal judge on Wednesday rejected Donald Trump’s request for a new trial in a civil case brought by E Jean Carroll, where a jury found the former US president liable for sexually abusing and defaming the writer and awarded her $5m in damages. In a 59-page decision, US district Judge Lewis Kaplan in Manhattan said the jury did not reach a “seriously erroneous result,” and the [9 May verdict](https://www.reuters.com/legal/jurors-set-deliberate-civil-rape-case-against-donald-trump-2023-05-09/) was not a “miscarriage of justice”." ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/393 "2023-07-19T14:26:12Z")
Poor Donny. This just isn’t his week. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/394 "2023-07-19T17:48:50Z")
And let’s hope next week isn’t his week either. And the week after that, and the week after that… ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/395 "2023-07-19T18:06:53Z")
I can’t imagine trying to justify my actions by telling people, “I’m not a rapist, I’m just a sexual assaulter.” ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/396 "2023-07-20T00:38:17Z")
He likely doesn’t understand what _sexual assault_ means; therefore, it does not exist in his meager mind. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/397 "2023-07-20T04:49:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > He likely doesn’t understand what _sexual assault_ means; Try “dirty old man” instead. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/398 "2023-07-20T12:32:34Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I can’t imagine trying to justify my actions by telling people, “I’m not a rapist, I’m just a sexual assaulter.” That’s why you’re not a psychopath. Trumps justification is “I want” and he doesn’t care what anyone thinks contrary. To boot, right now he’s got about 100 million fans screaming for him to keep doing more, more, MORE of the same! ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/399 "2023-07-20T17:00:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > To boot, right now he’s got about 100 million fans screaming for him to keep doing more, more, MORE of the same I recommend we all stay off of Fifth Avenue for a while. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/400 "2023-07-20T17:03:25Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > That’s why you’re not a psychopath. Trumps justification is “I want” and he doesn’t care what anyone thinks contrary. This might be the nicest thing anyone has ever said about me here. I’m crying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=21)