# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/701 "2024-01-26T22:16:08Z")
Just did some quick math, and I’d be unable to come up with 83 million dollars! ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/702 "2024-01-26T22:17:15Z")
Alina Habba speaking to the media: Trump is leading in the polls, and this is happening. Judge decided before the matter began that Trump was liable. No evidence; my experts were denied the chance to testify. She’s [Carroll is] a drug addict, according to a friend. Violation of our justice system. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/703 "2024-01-26T22:17:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Ulfreida](#): > > > > How can he be compelled to pay this? > > If he posts a bond (or cash) collection is easy. If not, they start taking things he owns. It would be amusing if one of the first things they took was Truth Social, on the basis that it was a major and ongoing cause of the reputational harm that was litigated. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/704 "2024-01-26T22:17:28Z")
so - he’s down 1/2 billion alone in NY - assuming the verdict coming back from the fraud case. Gotta hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/705 "2024-01-26T22:19:23Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Alina Habba speaking to the media: > > Trump is leading in the polls, and this is happening. Judge decided before the matter began that Trump was liable. No evidence; my experts were denied the chance to testify. She’s [Carroll is] a drug addict, according to a friend. Violation of our justice system. She seriously said this? Does she want to be the next up in court facing defamation for false accusations of drug use? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/706 "2024-01-26T22:19:31Z")
But I bet you wouldn’t have done what Trump did. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/707 "2024-01-26T22:20:04Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Does she want to be the next up in court facing defamation for false accusations of drug use? No, she’s safe. It’s “according to a friend,” so it’s hearsay. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/708 "2024-01-26T22:20:39Z")
So I can say “I heard somewhere that you are a nasty pedophile” and I’m in the clear? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/709 "2024-01-26T22:20:43Z")
But she’s repeating it. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/710 "2024-01-26T22:20:47Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > He won’t do it unless absolutely forced like at gunpoint forced. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/V3F2z8ApOI8/maxresdefault.jpg "Your Proposal Is Acceptable") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3F2z8ApOI8) ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/711 "2024-01-26T22:22:32Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > THIS IS NOT AMERICA!” He’s going to have to liquidate a few assets. He’ll end up being the ‘man who sold the world’. That could take anything up to ‘five years’. Maybe he could get a ride from Musk and start a new ‘life on mars’. ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/712 "2024-01-26T22:23:33Z")
> [@simster](#): > > so - he’s down 1/2 billion alone in NY - assuming the verdict coming back from the fraud case. Good point - next week a bigger pile will hit the fan and that will be the focus of his gripes during rallies, hopefully allowing Ms. Carroll some respite. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/713 "2024-01-26T22:26:45Z")
> [@Eric1](#): > > They said the punitive damages were too high relative to compensatory. I think they said it was due to eminent domain or something akin to that. Maybe that would apply here. The law of punitive damages is very complicated. In rough terms the United States Supreme Court has said that large punitive awards can violate due process rights, because the defendants are not on notice of what punishment could come from their conduct. They have said the ratio of punitive damages to actual damages cannot (usually) exceed a 9 to 1 ratio. If the actual damages are “significant,” than maybe 4 to 1 or even 1 to 1 is the most that courts should allow. There are factors for the reviewing courts to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/714 "2024-01-26T22:27:17Z")
What’s the procedure if (when) Trump continues to spread malicious lies about Carroll? Or if Trump’s attorney spreads lies (old ones or new ones) about Carroll? Do they go back to square one and have a brand new trial on new charges? Or?? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/715 "2024-01-26T22:29:20Z")
> ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/716 "2024-01-26T22:29:25Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > They have said the ratio of punitive damages to actual damages cannot (usually) exceed a 9 to 1 ratio. If the actual damages are “significant,” than maybe 4 to 1 or even 1 to 1 is the most that courts should allow. There are factors for the reviewing courts to consider. Looks like in this case, the punitive damages (65 million) is about 3.5 times the actual damages (18.3 million) ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/717 "2024-01-26T22:29:35Z")
Way too many twitterers are saying what you think they’d be saying. They can’t believe he can do any wrong?! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/718 "2024-01-26T22:30:41Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Judge Kaplan to the jury > > > “My advice to you is that you never disclose that you were on this jury, and I won’t say anything more about it," he added. Isn’t that a pretty standard jury instruction in New York courts? For mob trials, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/719 "2024-01-26T22:32:36Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Looks like in this case, the punitive damages (65 million) is about 3.5 times the actual damages (18.3 million) Yeah, that bodes well for Carrol. Under 4:1 is where you want to be. But courts like to take away punitive damages. Given the squishiness of the factors (e.g. “reprehensibility” is one), a reviewing court can pretty much do whatever they want. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2024, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/720 "2024-01-26T22:34:19Z")
Love this remark I spotted on another message board: “Alina Habba’s performance as a real lawyer made 1Ls roll their eyes.” For those not in the know, a “1L” is a first-year law student. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=37)