# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/781 "2024-01-27T12:42:26Z")
His daughter and son in law have a couple billion. Surely they’ll help ole dad out. Hahaha ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/782 "2024-01-27T13:05:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I wonder if Habba is going to defend herself when she gets dragged into court. If she actually ends up in court over it, I’ll find it amusing if she hires and pays for a competent attorney that follows the rules of the court and takes care of this without a while lot of fanfare. Granted, even the most competent attorney won’t be able to help her if she goes full Trump and starts doubling down on the defamation thing every chance she gets. While we know she’s been an awful lawyer, I’ll give her a small amount of credit because she had an even more awful client. While plenty of her mistakes are going to end up costing Trump money, the vast majority of it is his fault. Even OJ’s Dream Team wouldn’t have been able to keep him out of jail if he was murdering people throughout the trial. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/783 "2024-01-27T13:26:47Z")
Well, you know what they said about the client of those who represent themselves… ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/784 "2024-01-27T14:10:10Z")
Even drug addicts can be sexually assaulted. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/785 "2024-01-27T14:20:40Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > … He claimed to have north of $400M in cash, and growing. A verdict in the New York fraud trial is due next week. If Judge Engoron fines Trump the full amount requested — $370M — he (Trump) may have to go through the sofa cushions to satisfy both that and Carroll. I’d subscribe to a PPV to watch. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/786 "2024-01-27T14:27:42Z")
Only if they blur out the butt crack. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/787 "2024-01-27T14:31:02Z")
It would be interesting to see if the NY judgment is large also, whether Trump would decide to declare bankrupcy for a 6th time. Personally, I’d love to see an actual accounting of his net worth done for real, and the downside of a loss to his reputation as a businessman during an election year might not be so big considering his idiot followers and his ability to lie about stuff. I doubt it would come to that, there’s still pkenty more grifting to be done. But it would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/788 "2024-01-27T14:44:49Z")
I’m curious if there’s _any_ truth to this allegation at all. Only because, well, not _only_ because, but the timing seems odd that she’d accuse someone (every accusation) of being a drug addict just a day after we started hearing reports that the White House Pharmacy was handing out pills like candy while Trump was in office. > **[Trump's White House Pharmacy Handed Out Drugs Like Candy: Report](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-white-house-pharmacy-prescription-drugs-1234953535/)** > > A DOD Inspector General report found a severe lack of control over prescription medications at the White House pharmacy during Trump’s administration. > Through in-person inspections and interviews with over 120 officials, the report concluded “that the White House Medical Unit provided a wide range of health care and pharmaceutical services to ineligible White House staff in violation of Federal law and regulation and DoD policy. Additionally, the White House Medical Unit dispensed prescription medications, including controlled substances, to ineligible White House staff.” Also, they spent an ungodly amount on name brand meds > The report found that between 2017-2019, the White House “spent an estimated $46,500 for brand name Ambien, which is 174 times more expensive than the generic equivalent,” and “an estimated $98,000 for brand name Provigil, which is 55 times more expensive than the generic equivalent.” ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/789 "2024-01-27T14:53:15Z")
It’s a huge moral victory. Now I want E. Jean Carroll to get her money ASAP. She is 80 years old, and justice delayed is justice denied. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/790 "2024-01-27T14:57:27Z")
That’s true, but that smile on her face as she left the courthouse was priceless. But I too hope she gets paid in full pronto. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/791 "2024-01-27T14:59:57Z")
Moderating: > [@Joey\_P](#): > > I’m curious if there’s _any_ truth to this allegation at all. Only because, well, not _only_ because, but the timing seems odd that she’d accuse someone (every accusation) of being a drug addict just a day after we started hearing reports that the White House Pharmacy was handing out pills like candy while Trump was in office. An interesting subject for discussion, but not in this thread. Please take further discussion to a different thread, or start a new one. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/792 "2024-01-27T16:23:27Z")
I have two jury questions, if anyone knows the answer (google isn’t getting the job done for me) 1. For the award, how does the jury have to negotiate? Is it necessarily unanimous? Being civil, I doubt it. But could 2/3 of the jury force the award onto (say) 1/3 MAGA supporters? 2. I thought I read that at least some of the jurors were self-described Trump voters, but now I can’t find that. Does anyone know if that’s true? For context, I’m trying to understand how assailable the jury is from the MAGA perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/793 "2024-01-27T16:51:00Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > It’s a huge moral victory. Now I want E. Jean Carroll to get her money ASAP. She is 80 years old, and justice delayed is justice denied. I would imagine Trump will delay this as long as possible and then some. I fully expect that Carroll’s estate is going to eventually get the money from Trump’s estate. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/794 "2024-01-27T17:39:08Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > For the award, how does the jury have to negotiate? Is it necessarily unanimous? Being civil, I doubt it. But could 2/3 of the jury force the award onto (say) 1/3 MAGA supporters? Federal civil trials require a unanimous jury verdict on all questions. So, yes, they have to negotiate. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/795 "2024-01-27T18:24:07Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > It would be interesting to see if the NY judgment is large also, whether Trump would decide to declare bankrupcy for a 6th time. [It wouldn’t relieve him of the Carroll verdict debt](https://www.cgalaw.com/are-defamation-damages-dischargeable-in-bankruptcy/): > Dischargeability depends upon what else the jury concludes. The Bankruptcy Code says that debts based on liability “for willful and malicious injury by the debtor to another entity or to property of another entity” are specifically excluded from the scope of the bankruptcy discharge. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/796 "2024-01-27T18:26:22Z")
More speculation on the effect that Trump’s behaviour may have had on the jury: > **[Trump's 'disrespectful' behavior during E. Jean Carroll trial turned the jury...](https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-disrespect-e-jean-carroll-trial-turned-jury-against-him-2024-1)** > > A jury ordered Donald Trump to pay E. Jean Carroll more than $80 million in damages following a contentious trial that highlighted his bad behavior. A retired federal judge and one of the lawyers for the plaintiffs in the Alex Jones defamation case both say that Trump’s behaviour likely cost him: > [@](#): > > Trump and his legal team’s behavior made what was already a difficult defense nearly impossible for the former president, John Jones, a former federal judge in Pennsylvania, told Business Insider. > > “When lawyers and litigants run roughshod over a judge or disregard his admonitions, juries don’t like that,” said Jones, who is now the president of Dickinson College. > > Juries tend to grow attached to their presiding trial judge, Jones said, adding that they often come to see the judge as a protector of sorts. Thus, Trump and Habba’s apparent disregard for Kaplan during the trial likely didn’t go unnoticed by the jury. > > “These are regular people who play by the rules,” Chris Mattei, a defamation lawyer who won a $1.5 billion jury verdict in the [Alex Jones defamation trial](https://www.businessinsider.com/alex-jones-conspiracy-theorist-sandy-hook-massacre-hoax-allegations-2022-7), said of the jury. > > “And then they see some guy come into court who basically throws up his middle finger at the law?” Mattei added. “No, average people don’t want that.” > > Trump shocked the courtroom on Friday when he [abruptly walked out of the courtroom](https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-walks-out-courtroom-e-jean-carroll-defamation-trial-2024-1) as Carroll’s attorney was arguing that he didn’t respect the jury, in a final display of unabashedness that likely left a bad final impression on the jury, Jones said. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/797 "2024-01-27T18:29:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@OldOlds](#): > > > > For the award, how does the jury have to negotiate? Is it necessarily unanimous? Being civil, I doubt it. But could 2/3 of the jury force the award onto (say) 1/3 MAGA supporters? > > Federal civil trials require a unanimous jury verdict on all questions. So, yes, they have to negotiate… I would have been a juror who was arguing for a 9 figure settlement. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/798 "2024-01-27T18:48:30Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@OldOlds](#): > > > > For the award, how does the jury have to negotiate? Is it necessarily unanimous? Being civil, I doubt it. But could 2/3 of the jury force the award onto (say) 1/3 MAGA supporters? > > Federal civil trials require a unanimous jury verdict on all questions. So, yes, they have to negotiate. It doesn’t sound like there were many objections – just two and a half hours for the jury to make their decision, and for a larger amount than most were expecting. And I agree with the article that @Northern_Piper posted, except I don’t think that the egregiously disrespectful behaviour by both Habba and her orange client “may” have turned the jury against Trump – I think by the time the trial was over, the jury had the same seething hatred for both of them that I did from merely **reading** about their antics. Of course I’m a bit biased. My blood pressure goes up about 10 points every time I even catch sight of his bloviating orange mug. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/799 "2024-01-27T20:03:12Z")
> [@OldOlds](#): > > 1. I thought I read that at least some of the jurors were self-described Trump voters, but now I can’t find that. Does anyone know if that’s true? The judge tightly controlled jury selection, and it doesn’t look like any known partisans made it onto the jury. > [@](#): > > The judge, Lewis A. Kaplan, ordered that the jurors remain anonymous as they considered how much Mr. Trump should pay for saying Ms. Carroll lied when she accused him of sexual abuse, for which he has already been found liable. Judge Kaplan said jurors should be identified only by number and even suggested they not share their actual names with one other… > > Many of the prospective jurors indicated that they were registered with a political party, though they were not asked which one. Many said they had voted in the presidential elections of 2016 and 2020, but they were not asked to reveal for whom they had cast their ballots. > > Those whose responses suggested they were more politically engaged did not make it onto the panel — like one retired English teacher who got her news from “Pod Save America,” a podcast hosted by former aides to former President Barack Obama, and a workplace investigator from Westchester who had attended a Trump rally… > > In the end, those selected for the jury included a retired track supervisor for the New York City Transit Authority, a property manager, an emergency medicine doctor, a publicist and five other New Yorkers > > A majority said they were from Manhattan, the Bronx and Westchester County. Not everyone offered their age, but among those who did, the ages ranged from 26 years old to 60 years old. > **[In Trump’s Defamation Trial, the Nine Most Important People Are Enigmas](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/25/nyregion/trumps-defamation-trial-carroll-jury.html)** > > The identities of the jurors deciding how much the former president will pay E. Jean Carroll are secret, thanks to a judge’s order. ETA: Perhaps you are thinking of the original jury in the first case? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/800 "2024-01-27T20:41:59Z")
I heard his idiot attorney on the radio claiming what a solid case they had for appeal. She said that he had the right, but was refused the opportunity, to defend himself. Yes, idiot, that’s what the trial that he couldn’t be bothered to attend was for. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=41)