# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/841 "2024-01-28T16:45:21Z")
Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/842 "2024-01-28T16:55:06Z")
Thanks for the links. I think I’m confused. I was thinking that Trump was saying he didn’t get a jury in the trial that found that he did sexually assault Carroll. But he did. Between the original rape trial (with a jury), the two defamation trials (with a jury), and the fraud trial (without a jury) – not to mention the Georgia trial, it’s hard to keep track. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/843 "2024-01-28T16:55:18Z")
It’s too articulate, and lacks capitals and more importantly, lacks that sense of victimhood that we’ve come to expect from the sad little man. And as Jack Batty points out - Trump would never admit a loss in any form. In Trump’s mind, he won this lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/844 "2024-01-28T17:06:29Z")
Yes, he’s had juries in both the Carroll cases, which are money alone, and will have them in the Georgia case and the New York DA’s criminal prosecution for hush-money. He didn’t get one in the NY AG civil case over civil fraud by Trump Org, in front of Judge Engoron. That’s where the issue came up. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/845 "2024-01-28T17:29:53Z")
I wonder if Trump even remembers that he had a jury in the rape trial. He goes on and on about not being able to ‘defend’ himself, when he already had that opportunity _at the rape trial_, and that in the defamation trials there is nothing to defend himself from because the issue had already been decided in front of a jury. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person, and I was getting mixed up. I can see how his antics would confuse his MAGA cult members… and himself. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/846 "2024-01-28T17:39:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I wonder if Trump even remembers that he had a jury in the rape trial. As I recall, he chose, CHOSE to not attend and not testify. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/847 "2024-01-28T19:20:46Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Republicans spent over [$123 million in Iowa](https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/15/politics/advertising-spending-iowa-republicans/index.html) alone. And that was only to get the GOP nomination. When you consider national spending for the Presidential general election, $84 million isn’t really that much. Note on the above though: Trump barely cares what _Republicans_ spend on advertising, beyond that it means he doesn’t have to spend money _he_ controls on anything. But money his personally-controlled PACs pay (including apparently many disbursements to Habba) or HE and HIS organizations (Trump Org) pay is money out of his own pocket. And that he cares about, deeply. Especially as ongoing investigations indicate that even while under judicial oversight, that many attempts to cheat and move money are ongoing. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/848 "2024-01-28T19:31:08Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > many attempts to cheat and move money are ongoing. You mean “to show his incredible business acumen and financial genius,”, right? ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/849 "2024-01-28T19:57:46Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > won’t go so far as to say this whole circus was the best idea to come out of the Trump campaign, but he has gotten a lot of mileage out of it. And, it’s not over. He will re-hash this victim-hood in rallies to come, not to mention being at the top of the news cycles when his appeals are rejected. His courtroom theatrics also play well to the MAGA masses. They’ll see his interruptions and walkout as signs of strength, in the “Hah! Trump doesn’t take orders from some stupid judge!” vein. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/850 "2024-01-28T20:05:15Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Did you see her as a rotten attorney, ill suited to the profession in any capacity, or was she maybe in WAY over her head? I know I’m asking for speculation and that the answer could be both. I’m just wondering if she had stayed in her lane, in her low-profile niche, if she would have avoided the stench of incompetence. I wouldn’t say she’s ill suited to the legal profession in any capacity (assuming allegations regarding her behavior regarding a sexual harassment claim against one of Trump’s clubs are false). She’s certainly over her head here but by the evidence we’ve all seen she’s not a competent trial attorney. Habba didn’t know the basics of how to behave in court, how to introduce evidence, nor does she seem to understand what estoppel means. If Habba had stayed in her lane as the legal representative of her husband’s parking garage she probably would have been fine. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/851 "2024-01-28T20:23:43Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Nitpick: Trump’s first (and only, please) term as president started in January of 2017. True. That was a lifetime, and 3 jobs ago. My memory of those innocent days is growing dim. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/852 "2024-01-28T20:44:14Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I wonder if Trump even remembers that he had a jury in the rape trial. He goes on and on about not being able to ‘defend’ himself, when he already had that opportunity _at the rape trial_, and that in the defamation trials there is nothing to defend himself from because the issue had already been decided in front of a jury. There’s only been two trials. The first case that went to trial (confusingly called _Carroll II_) was last April. It raised the issue of sexual battery and defamation. The jury in that case heard evidence of both issues and found that Trump did commit sexual battery and did defame Carroll. Trump chose not to testify in front of the jury in that case. Judge Kaplan clarified afterwards that Trump had raped her, in the common meaning of the word. The one this week was _Carroll I_ and just considered additional defamation issues. Kaplan had issued a partial summary judgment in this case, concluding that the issue of Trump raping her had been decided by the first jury and could not be re-litigated in the second case. All that was at issue was the question of additional defamation. Wikipedia has a detailed article covering both trials. [E. Jean Carroll v. Donald J. Trump - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump#:~:text=In%20July%202023%2C%20Judge%20Kaplan,Carroll%20via%20his%202019%20statements). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/853 "2024-01-28T21:00:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > There’s only been two trials. That was my recollection as well. They were both defamation trials. But in order to show defamation occurred in the first trial the jury had to establish that it was more likely than not that Trump had committed sexual assault. (What they determined he did was not technically “rape” as New York defined it at the time, based on testimony and evidence in the trial, but it was what most people would consider to be rape, so when he called her a liar he was knowingly defaming her.) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/854 "2024-01-28T21:04:16Z")
_Carroll II_ wasn’t just defamation. It was also the rape claim. Carroll was able to bring the rape claim in _Carroll II_ because of a special law passed by the New York legislature that gave a special one year extension to the limitation period for civil sexual assault cases. The jury’s verdict in that case did find that Trump had sexually assaulted her, and that he had defamed her. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/855 "2024-01-28T21:07:17Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > _Carroll II_ wasn’t just defamation. It was also the rape claim. So the rape claim wasn’t just to establish defamation, it was a separate claim with additional penalties. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/856 "2024-01-28T21:40:04Z")
You know, anyone could find themselves involved in a lawsuit here, a criminal trial there. Leave it to Trump to be defending himself in so many that it’s hard to keep track of. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/857 "2024-01-28T21:43:21Z")
I’m just so happy to see a WOMAN kick his ass and put him in his place. Do you think he will shut up about it now? I don’t think he’s capable. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/858 "2024-01-28T21:58:03Z")
> [@Biffster](#): > > Do you think he will shut up about it now? I don’t think he’s capable. So far he is. The defamation has stopped for now. It seems that his handlers have finally been able to get it through to his reptilian brain that “anything you say will just make things worse” and would just scuttle whatever slim chance he has of an appeal. The restraint must be killing him. I’m sure large amounts of ketchup have become involved. I’m not sure if he can keep it up. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/859 "2024-01-28T21:59:54Z")
He has plenty of other stories about her he can ‘re-truth’ - he hasn’t let up, he’s just using others to spread the word. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/860 "2024-01-28T22:49:40Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > So the rape claim wasn’t just to establish defamation, it was a separate claim with additional penalties. That’s my understanding, yes. Tried at the same proceeding as the defamation claim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=44)