# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1081 "2024-02-26T23:56:58Z")
Again, it’s like you’re operating under some weird assumption that the judge is going to demand that E. Jean Carroll personally come into his courtroom and explain to him why he shouldn’t grant a stay to Trump. That’s not how this works. Carroll’s lawyers are being given a chance to do their job and grant a rebuttal. They may not even bug her about any of this unless she wants them to. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2024, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1082 "2024-02-26T23:59:54Z")
As long as Trump isn’t asked to document his claim, first, you have a point. It’s fucking bullshit, and she should be left alone, completely. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1083 "2024-02-27T00:10:03Z")
How about this, I look forward to Carroll’s lawyers, in equisitely polite language, point out all the ways that Trump’s request is unspeakably foolish, in all the ways they can twist the knife, while keeping scrupulously honest. Oh, and make many veiled statements that the reason he is doing this is he’s broke. Then, the judge will happily deny Trump’s request, which I note, did NOT extend the time for him to come up with funds in any way. Possibly, but IANAL consider additional damages (only for the lawyers work on the rebuttal) for a frivolous claim while he’s at it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1084 "2024-02-27T00:14:25Z")
Trump says he’s got too much money to bother with petty things like bonds. (Everybody else closes their eyes and plugs their ears.) Hypothetical smart judge of the future says: OK, prove it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1085 "2024-02-27T00:14:52Z")
I would like to humbly submit a template for Judge Kaplan to use when he does write a formal response to this post. Credit to Principal James Downey: > Mr. Trump, this motion is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in this rambling, incoherent document were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this courtroom is now dumber for having been exposed to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1086 "2024-02-27T00:21:44Z")
I would like to modify the last statment of the quote to remind @Euphonious_Polemic of the many times (in the many Trump threads) we’ve mentioned the meme of some Republican evoking God and a voice from the heavens speaks “For the Last Time, Leave Me OUT of it!”. IE no one who’s been paying attention should suggest Trump is worthy of mercy, especially as he is the farthest thing from Repentant that I can imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1087 "2024-02-27T00:26:25Z")
“may you be cast into the fiery pit”? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1088 "2024-02-27T00:50:22Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Yeah, and we’re gonna drag the gal who got raped back into this because… Trump said something. Naw, this is purely a formulistic legal dance, lawyers only, parties need not participate. Carroll’s lawyer cites the relevant statute on the requirements for pursuing an appeal, says no grounds for an exception; judge agrees; done. ETA: Or, as @ParallelLines points out, Carroll’s attorneys could have some fun with it, but the rest of what I said holds true. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1089 "2024-02-27T01:10:15Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Naw, this is purely a formulistic legal dance, lawyers only, parties need not participate. Precisely. This is what lawyers do. Except imagine that this is a duel where one person has a bazooka and the other has a spork. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1090 "2024-02-27T01:11:15Z")
👏 👏 👏 👏 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1091 "2024-02-27T02:40:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Why the hell should Carroll have to respond to that? Carroll is the one who invoked the jurisdiction of the court by bringing her action. That means that she has to accept the rules of the court. _Audi alteram partem_ is a basic principle of the courts, closely tied to due process. A judge must “hear both sides” before making a decision. It ensures that the judge is an impartial arbiter, not an adversary of one side, or proponent for the other side. It also ensures that the facts and arguments in the point in dispute, both pro and con, are both fully developed before the court makes its decision. Even when it’s a weak or even frivolous point, the judge instinctively turns to the other side and asks for their comments. That’s to ensure that the judge is fully briefed on the point, and that there is no allegation that the judge is biased in favour of one side. The easy answer here, which I expect Carroll’s lawyers to make, is that it’s true she argued for a large settlement from Donnie based on his wealth, but there has been a significant change in circumstances since the jury ruled in favour: Judge Engoron’s decision has been a massive increase in Donnie’s liability, and she needs a bond to to be granted to protect her from his increased liability. Put bluntly, he’s no longer as rich as he was when the jury ruled in her favour, which is what he seems to be arguing, since even if his assets are unchanged, the liability side of his ledger is much, much worse. That won’t be a difficult argument for Carroll’s lawyers to make. > **[Audi alteram partem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_alteram_partem)** > > Audi alteram partem (or audiatur et altera pars) is a Latin phrase meaning "listen to the other side", or "let the other side be heard as well". It is the principle that no person should be judged without a fair hearing in which each party is given the opportunity to respond to the evidence against them. "Audi alteram partem" is considered to be a principle of fundamental justice or equity or the principle of natural justice in most legal systems. This principle includes the rights of a party or... ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1092 "2024-02-27T09:41:17Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Loser Donald says he’s too rich to post a bond. That faint sound you hear is the ghost of Leona Helmsley laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1093 "2024-02-27T14:17:00Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Trump says he’s got too much money to bother with petty things like bonds. > (Everybody else closes their eyes and plugs their ears.) > Hypothetical smart judge of the future says: OK, prove it. More like: Judge does a Picard Face Palm, turns to the plaintiff’s representation and asks for any comment, **as they have the right to weigh in.** The plaintiff’s counsel replies that it is obviously total bullshit, and cites the relevant case law. The judge agrees and denies the motion. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1094 "2024-02-27T15:35:07Z")
Apparently Trump thinks he’s an influencer getting a free meal. “Tell you what, judge; I won’t pay the judgement, but I have thousands of followers, and I’ll tell them what a great court you have here. They will all want to come to court, and you’ll make lots of money!” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1095 "2024-02-27T16:35:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Apparently Trump thinks he’s an influencer IIRC, one of his defenses was that Carroll has, in fact, made more money than she would have if it wasn’t for him and this case. That line of reasoning is right on the first page of the influencer handbook on how to get things for free; “Tell people you shouldn’t have to pay them and angrily insist they should be happy to accept the exposure/publicity instead”. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1096 "2024-02-27T18:14:31Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The easy answer here, which I expect Carroll’s lawyers to make, is that it’s true she argued for a large settlement from Donnie based on his wealth, but there has been a significant change in circumstances since the jury ruled in favour: Judge Engoron’s decision has been a massive increase in Donnie’s liability, and she needs a bond to to be granted to protect her from his increased liability. This. Even more justification for a bond, besides any statutory requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1097 "2024-02-27T18:27:46Z")
Is Trump paying her attorney’s fees? Is that an option if he incurs additional fees through frivolous actions? Can they submit a letter than says something like, > [@](#): > > Your Honor, > > In response to the Defendant’s proposal to forgo posting bond, you have requested for our thoughts. Accordingly, we provide them. > > We submit that drafting this response wil be billed to Ms. Carroll at a rate of $1000 hourly, and that the letter has taken thirty minutes to draft and complete.We submit that the judgment against the Defendant should be increased by $500. > > Cordially yours etc. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1098 "2024-02-27T19:07:13Z")
Carroll’s lawyers are not required to reply to Trump’s latest ridiculous move, rather they’re being given an _opportunity_ to reply, which I’m sure they will do as a matter of form and procedure, and maybe to have some fun with the pervasive stupidity of Trump’s lawyers. What I’m suggesting is that if Team Carroll never replied at all, the judge would very likely go with the ruling that he’s probably already made up his mind about: “another ridiculous request hereby denied”. But the expected strong submission from Team Carroll strengthens the ruling against future appeal, and I’m sure the judge has the same expectations that I do of the response from Team Orange, namely that it will be incoherent drivel, since they have no legal argument. Having all of this on the record is helpful, and I’m sure the appeals court will be amused by Trump’s incessantly illogical and often frivolous arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1099 "2024-02-27T19:07:14Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > IIRC, one of his defenses was that Carroll has, in fact, made more money than she would have if it wasn’t for him and this case. That line of reasoning is right on the first page of the influencer handbook on how to get things for free; “Tell people you shouldn’t have to pay them and angrily insist they should be happy to accept the exposure/publicity instead” Talk about projecting. What are the two most desirable things in Donald Trump’s universe? Why, money and publicity, of course! He’s evidently not even capable of comprehending that many or even most people would likely not want to draw attention to themselves. Particularly for something negative. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2024, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1100 "2024-02-27T19:12:01Z")
^^^^This. Folks who haven’t been exposed to it have no idea just how formalized a dance the practice of law can be, indeed has to be, to protect the interests of everyone caught up in its toils, as well as the integrity of the judicial system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=56)