# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1181 "2024-03-07T16:30:24Z")
I don’t think this would be limited to one property. And in any case, they may be mortgage to the hilt. Also I doubt Trump owns Trump Tower, but it’s a bunch of LLC’s. Just a guess though considering the way he operates. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1182 "2024-03-07T16:56:52Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > And in any case, they may be mortgage to the hilt. Trump Tower has been officially owned by GMAC Commercial Mortgage since 2021. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1183 "2024-03-07T17:00:30Z")
The article from Curbed that I linked to upthread says that Trump Org owns the retail and commercial parts of Trump Tower, and Trump owns the penthouse. But that could be shorthand for « LLCs controlled by Trump Org » and « LLCs controlled by Trump », or trusts, or some other ownership structure. It also says he owns the ground lease for 40 Wall Street, but again, that may just be journalese shortcuts. But, that’s what high-priced NY lawyers get paid to figure out, acting for Carroll and NY AG. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1184 "2024-03-07T17:00:57Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > The ~~Trump~~ E Jean Carrol Tower. Complete with big gold letters. Here you go! [![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/744/868/26f) ](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/744/868/26f) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1185 "2024-03-07T17:01:01Z")
So it’s his in name only I suppose? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1186 "2024-03-07T17:02:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Trump Tower has been officially owned by GMAC Commercial Mortgage since 2021 I saw that in the Wikipedia article, but I wondered if that is because of the way mortgages get registered in NY? (GMAC was a mortgage company. It’s gone through some restructuring and operates under a different name now.) ---
**Author:** ![kay1864](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kay1864/32/16024_2.png) [@kay1864](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kay1864)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1187 "2024-03-07T17:46:54Z")
Found this: **Can he or his businesses declare bankruptcy?** Under the judge’s ruling Friday, Trump would still be liable to pay even if the Trump Organization declares bankruptcy. If Trump personally declared bankruptcy, the enforcement of the judgment against him would be paused. But political commenters say such a drastic step is unlikely. Despite the fact that several of his previous companies have gone bankrupt, Trump has repeatedly bragged about the fact that he has never, personally, declared bankruptcy. > **[Trump's legal debts top a half-billion dollars. Will he have to pay?](https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-carroll-fines-82d423b8e7a7f9a32470729c5f4410e5#)** > > Donald Trump’s legal debts might now exceed a half-billion dollars. A New York judge ordered Trump and his companies Friday to pay $355 million in fines, plus interest, after ruling that he had manipulated his net worth in financial statements. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1188 "2024-03-07T17:52:26Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Other Trump legal actions value it at $18 Million. I believe that’s the Palm Beach tax assessor’s valuation. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1189 "2024-03-07T18:04:00Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Legal deadlines usually expire at the end of business on the day in question, so he has up until the end of tomorrow to pony up the cash. If he fails to do that, it’s open season on him the next working day, which would be Monday. “Open Season”, AIUI, has legal limits. Subrogation is not permitted to destroy a person, leaving them destitute, homeless, without even a barrel (because, damn, man, who wants to see _that_). Collections have to leave a person enough to survive on – I think the can-take number in an ongoing claim resolution is something like 10% (of discoverable income).        Asset grabbing is a different animal, but it is complicated by the fact that he mostly does not _own_ stuff. Many of his high-ticket NY properties are “ground leases”, so the RE tycoon does not really own much RE. A lot of really wealthy people measure their wealth in how much they can borrow rather than how much they have (kinda like how banks record deposits as liabilities and loans as assets). ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1190 "2024-03-07T18:07:24Z")
> [@kay1864](#): > > Right after the creation of the imaginatively-named “The Trump Organization II.” Electric… No. I’m not going to say it. We’re totally over that, right? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1191 "2024-03-07T18:11:41Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I believe that’s the Palm Beach tax assessor’s valuation. Yes. Which is gamed, so that Trump does not have to pay as much in local property tax. (taxes are for the little people) Trump himself has claimed it is worth a billion dollars. Local real estate folks with a good knowledge of the area say 200 million plus. Forbes estimated 350 million. The club has revenues of 20 -25 million per year. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1192 "2024-03-07T18:23:29Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > it is complicated by the fact that he mostly does not _own_ stuff. Many of his high-ticket NY properties are “ground leases”, so the RE tycoon does not really own much RE. This is undoubtedly true. It will be a maze of mortgages, portions of ground leases, companies who own other companies who own a third company who owns a share of a ground lease with a mortgage on it. Very tough to straighten out, as has been mentioned upthread. That’s why I hope Carroll’s lawyers simply go for the easiest asset; Mar a Lago. It’s not Trump’s residence - he’s made that perfectly (and legally) clear. It earns income. It’s a business asset, presumably wholly owned by Trump. Is there any way that Carroll’s lawyers can force a sale of the property to claim the amount owed? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1193 "2024-03-07T18:23:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Asset grabbing is a different animal, but it is complicated by the fact that he mostly does not _own_ stuff. At some point he has to own _something_ that owns the properties, so that he has the right to use them, derive income from them, and mortgage them to the hilt. It will take some work to sort that all out, but at some point, the lawyers will be able to say, “Trump owns x% of Bullshit Liability Corporation, which ultimately owns Trump Tower. So we’ll seize that ownership, and sell it to some other real estate holding company.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1194 "2024-03-07T19:40:07Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > (kinda like how banks record deposits as liabilities and loans as assets). That’s standard bookkeeping. The bank doesn’t own money in deposit. They are holding it safely for each depositer. They are required to surrender the money if a depositer decides to withdraw it from the account. That is a liability for the bank. It has to keep enough money to cover the withdrawals. A loan is an asset. The bank earns money on the loan, can sell the loan to another lenders (subject to terms of the loan), and generally can treat the loan as a valuable property. To put it another way, would you trust your bank if it said that the money you’ve deposited to them is now one of _their_ assets? ---
**Author:** ![Ponderoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponderoid/32/19221_2.png) [@Ponderoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponderoid)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1195 "2024-03-07T22:39:16Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Electric… > No. I’m not going to say it. I will. _Trump Org 2, Electric Switcharoo._ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1196 "2024-03-07T22:43:07Z")
In today’s Very Unsurprising Move, Judge Kaplan refused to give Trump more delays, and refused to unilaterally reduce the payment the jury decided on, and refused to give Trump a magic do-over. > “Mr. Trump’s current situation is a result of his own dilatory actions,” Judge Lewis Kaplan wrote in his order late Thursday. “He has had since January 26 to organize his finances with the knowledge that he might need to bond this judgment, yet he waited until 25 days after the jury verdict … to file his prior motion for an unsecured or partially secured stay pending resolution of post-trial motions.” Translated: Shut the fuck up Donny. You’re out of your element. > **[Judge won't let Trump delay E. Jean Carroll penalties, leaving him with days...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/judge-trump-delay-jean-carroll-penalties-leaving-days/story?id=107885701)** > > A judge has denied Donald Trump's request to delay the penalties in E. Jean Carroll's defamation case, leaving Trump just days to cover the $83 million judgment. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2024, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1197 "2024-03-07T23:33:46Z")
Good fucking news. Shut the fuck up, Donnie, indeed. And fuck off while you’re at it. (To further the reference: Where’s the money, Lebowski?) ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1198 "2024-03-08T15:59:17Z")
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/08/politics/trump-carroll-83-million-defamation-bond-appeal/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/08/politics/trump-carroll-83-million-defamation-bond-appeal/index.html) > Former President Donald Trump has posted a $91.63 million bond as he appeals the judgment against him in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case. > > The notice of Trump’s bond and appeal was made with the federal court in New York on Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1199 "2024-03-08T16:02:02Z")
So… He claimed he needed three more days to get the bond money together. And today he posts the bond money. Seems he was lying again, simply in order to create more delay. What a shocker! ETA: Someone better check to make sure the “bond” is not just a box filled with blank paper. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2024, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1200 "2024-03-08T16:06:03Z")
So, if I understand correctly, that means as soon as the case is over, that money (even if it’s a reduced amount) goes directly to her. She won’t have to spend years and years and years trying to collect even a portion of it. This is why I figured it’s good for her if he appeals. Yes, it means getting dragged into court, again, but at least they will (should, hopefully) be a payday when it’s over. In fact, I kinda figured he wouldn’t appeal it specifically so he wouldn’t have to pay it, at least not yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=61)