# Civil Trial: Trump v E. Jean Carroll (Carroll wins, awarded $5 million, plus 83.3 million) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [April 17, 2023, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820 "2023-04-17T21:59:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1321 "2024-03-10T07:17:32Z")
Sir, I like how you think. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1322 "2024-03-10T08:27:39Z")
So if she does decide to sue again, how long till the case sees a courtroom and how long would the trial take? The assault is now a matter of established fact right? So wouldnt need to be tried again? And his comments are pretty unequivocal with no wiggle room? In this sort of situation, how high could punitive damages go? If the previous award wasnt enough of a punishment, can they double or triple it? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1323 "2024-03-10T08:52:24Z")
If I were Carroll, I’d wait. The Orange Toddler has no self-control, and as he continues defaming Carroll, the devoted adulation of his sycophantic followers will embolden him to unleash his grievances even more bigly, as he always does with the predictability of a cuckoo clock. And when the defamatory harangues become indisputably egregious, Carroll should pounce! With big settlements almost certainly coming her way, and lawyers probably happy to take her cases on contingency, she effectively has unlimited legal resources. And she did promise to use the funds for causes that Trump hates, and what better example of such a cause than to keep dragging the obstreperous toddler back into court for ever higher judgments? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1324 "2024-03-10T09:07:17Z")
Can his latest comments be used against him in his apoeal? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1325 "2024-03-10T09:30:56Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Can his latest comments be used against him in his apoeal? . No. Appeals are only for determining if something legalistic was wrong in the original case. Things like the judge making an improper ruling or some evidence was not admissible, things like that. You can’t introduce new evidence in an appeal. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1326 "2024-03-10T11:15:32Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Judge should say “Fine. Document your wealth for me, submit it under oath. End.” That wouldn’t work for me. I understand that the bond posting requirement is to ensure that the judgement CAN be paid after an unsuccessful appeal, but given the America-hating fuckstick’s documented history of not paying his bills, the bond should ensure that he’s “good for it” (the amount due) both fiscally and behaviorally. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1327 "2024-03-10T13:48:18Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > the sycophants and yes-men he surrounds himself with will be too incompetent to do it for him, That’s the problem-the competent Evil people will just use him as a shield or barking dog as cover. They won’t make the same mistake again, and the inertia we see from the Republican senators and representatives will vanish. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1328 "2024-03-10T14:16:26Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > If they were planning on declaring him above the law, why delay at all? Because if they declare it too soon, it gives the Democrats more time to campaign on the obvious threat to democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1329 "2024-03-10T14:22:37Z")
> [@Smid](#): > > Trump loses. Chubb loses all the bond. Do they expect Trump to pay all of this bond to them? Or they just keep the fees and take the hit? (Ignoring him winning election and shooting everyone involved). > > Trump wins. They get all the bond back and keep the fees? These guys are an insurance company. Figuring out risks and probabilities of sometimes very complicated things is what they do, and they’ve done it well enough to stay in business for a long time. So they’ve done the math on all this. Both the odds of Trump winning or losing the appeal, and probably of him winning or losing the election, and what that means for their prospects of being repaid in any given case. And they seem to have come down on the side of “We’ll get our money back”. This gives me hope, actually, since the biggest risk to them, it seems to me, is Trump winning the election, and wielding his power to prevent them from collecting their money. If they’re willing to bet on him, it looks to me like they’re betting he’s going to lose the election. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1330 "2024-03-10T14:39:50Z")
And then there’s this asshole: > **[Legal expert says Trump 'certainly' just welcomed a new defamation suit at...](https://www.rawstory.com/trump-new-carroll-defamation-rally/)** > > Donald Trump recently posted a bond for more than $90 million in connection with a civil suit in which he was found liable for defaming columnist E. Jean Carroll, who a jury found was sexually assaulted by the former president in the 1990s. At a... So, $83 million isn’t enough to shut him up. Are we taking bets on what the next award will be? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1331 "2024-03-10T14:51:34Z")
FWIW, Chubb Insurance Company of Russia is part of Chubb Insurance LLC. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1332 "2024-03-10T15:02:15Z")
Pure happenstance. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1333 "2024-03-10T21:09:54Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > No. Appeals are only for determining if something legalistic was wrong in the original case. Things like the judge making an improper ruling or some evidence was not admissible, things like that. You can’t introduce new evidence in an appeal. Can it be introduced as evidence that the original penalty was _not_ excessive and should not be reduced? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1334 "2024-03-10T22:00:38Z")
Trump says that E. Jean Carroll created false stories about what he did to her. Does basically calling her a liar count as defamation? > **[Despite being found liable for attack, Trump claims E. Jean Carroll made...](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/found-liable-attack-trump-claims-e-jean-carroll-made-false-accusations-rcna142637)** > > The former president is appealing two civil court losses after he was found liable for sexually abusing and then defaming the writer. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1335 "2024-03-10T22:14:59Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Can it be introduced as evidence that the original penalty was _not_ excessive and should not be reduced? Fairly sure not. The original penalty was based on the evidence presented in court at that time. Anything in the future of that is not applicable. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1336 "2024-03-10T22:33:05Z")
> [@outlierrn](#): > > Can it be introduced as evidence that the original penalty was _not_ excessive and should not be reduced? AIUI, a judgement (ruling or verdict) in a case is made in the first court of hearing. When you get to Appeals courts, you are no longer addressing the original question, you are addressing whether the first court ruled correctly. Hence, the only evidence you can offer is from the proceedings of the first court (or evidence that might impugn the impartiality of the first judge, I think). All the way to SCotUS, the appeals process is about the original hearing process and what was wrong with it, or, perhaps, how the last appeals court erred. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1337 "2024-03-10T22:47:15Z")
I believe that in _very_ rare cases, the Appeals court has the ability to hear a case “de novo” (as new) and can actually take a look at the original evidence and essentially retry the case. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2024, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1338 "2024-03-10T23:06:19Z")
Hmm, sorry if I wasn’t clear, I’m imagining an exchange like this: Trump, the judgment was excessive. Carol, and yet it hasn’t changed defendants behavior. Judge, yeah, judgement stands, bang. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1339 "2024-03-11T00:22:33Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is that the same one that he said was a picture of his current wife Marla Maples? Then current wife, yes. > [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Trump says that E. Jean Carroll created false stories about what he did to her. Does basically calling her a liar count as defamation? Yes, but it depends on what he is saying she lied about as to whether it’s covered by the previous judgement or a new liability case. Lied about the rape, already proven in court. Lied about effects of the publicity from the rape, likely new suit. > [@dtilque](#): > > Fairly sure not. The original penalty was based on the evidence presented in court at that time. Anything in the future of that is not applicable. The lawsuit is about behavior. Punitive damages are all about preventing future misbehavior. If Trump is claiming the punitive damages are excessive, shouldn’t his continued misbehavior be allowed for consideration? It goes directly to the claim being questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820/1340 "2024-03-11T00:24:38Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Then current wife, yes. In the deposition he referred to her as “my wife”, not “my ex-wife”. Perhaps he got Marla confused with “Mercedes”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-trial-trump-v-e-jean-carroll-carroll-wins-awarded-5-million-plus-83-3-million/982820.md?page=68)