# Civil War and Batman vs Superman: please help me to get excited about these movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 16, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158 "2016-03-16T14:05:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/21 "2016-03-18T15:35:56Z")
Because Civil War will be the exact same bland actioner you know and love from all the Marvel Movies, and Batman vs Superman will be the same pretty-looking cgi fest led by unemotional, unrelatable robots that Man of Steel was! ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/22 "2016-03-18T16:14:54Z")
If I didn’t know better, I’d say SvB was a crossover in which Tony Stark built Batman’s suit. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/23 "2016-03-18T17:01:50Z")
I haven’t been watching the trailers & following the discussions about these upcoming blockbusters. Let me discover _something_ in the theater! So I’ll wait for the first reviews. Unless _Civil War_ is really bad, I’ll go. Unless the other one is really excellent, I’ll skip it. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/24 "2016-03-18T19:13:17Z")
I think the Batman verse Superman will be a dud, so I can’t help the OP on that one. The Superman franchise especially has been horrible, IMHO, and putting Batman (and Wonderwoman) in the mix is, again IMHO, unlikely to fix that. The only DC movie I’m looking forward to at all is Suicide Squad. Civil War though…that looks amazing. I’m looking at this as basically Avengers 2.5, and from what I’ve seen the clips look great. It’s not exactly like the comic story line, which I thought was pretty compelling, but it fits better in the actual MCU that we’ve gotten. I’m excited to see how they use their limited access to Spiderman (who played a more pivotal role in the comic book Civil War story line, sadly) and how new characters like Black Panther fit in. It’s a bit of a bummer, for me, that the X-Men who were in Civil War won’t be able to be in this (or the Fantastic 4), but I guess that boat has sailed. > [@](#): > > So please! Help me! Tell me fun and interesting stuff! Convince me I will love these movies so I can be excited! And for once, I don’t mind spoilers, provided they are not too massive - like no telling me Bucky gets his head blown off or something. I like Bucky and he is honestly the only reason I keep watching the Captain America movies. It’s a lot of videos, but if you really want to understand at least the comic book story line for Civil War I recommend [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z19Yvi0RsBo) YouTube series…this is the first one that goes into the setup for Civil War. I really like the guy who does these and it’s a comic book fans geek fest IMHO. Even if you just watch the first one you’ll get a feel for the story. None of this will help with the movie, of course, since if you watch some of these videos on this guys channel you’ll see how the MCU has diverged from the comics that inspired them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/25 "2016-03-18T22:08:47Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > It kind of doesn’t make sense in the Marvel Cinematic Universe the way it does in the comics, mainly because of the absence of mutants. In the comics, Avengers, X-Men and mutants are all in the same universe. There are thousands (millions?) of people with various super abilities. In the MCU, there are only a handful, and most of them are government employees anyway I’ve seen this said before (by you maybe?) but it’s not quite true. Maybe those are the only ones we see in the movies but it’s the accepted background that there’s a whole bunch of other lower level powered humans coming from both the two Netflix series and regular TV’s Agents of Shield. I don’t think it would be that jarring to moviegoers to have that idea put forward. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/26 "2016-03-18T22:22:29Z")
If nothing else, Iron Man 3 gave us an entire secret society of metahumans, with their powers granted through technological experimentation. Maybe there are still a few Extremis left, and maybe some decide to use their powers for good. Maybe some of them have figured out how to control the process better. And maybe, if someone figured out how to mass-produce Extremis supers, maybe someone else figured out a different way to mass-produce some other sort of super. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/27 "2016-03-18T22:32:29Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I love superhero movies as much as the next girl, and they have really turned around Captain America for me. I never liked Cap much before the movies, he always seemed to be a jingoistic anachronism. Instead, they made him into a gentleman, a warrior, a kind man, and a hero. I admit to being impressed (my only complaint: those were not hydras on the bad guys’ pins but octopi!) But I loved the Avengers I and II and I do like Batman even after what’s-his-face nearly ruined him with those terrible Dark Knight movies. It sounds to me like you enjoy more of the comic book feel of the movies more than when they try to shoehorn real life serious issues into it. Both movies coming out are dealing with pretty heavy issues and that can be a turn off for some people. However, despite looking pretty bleak, you’ll have plenty of fun battles in both movies. Both are showcasing brand new characters on the team that you’ve never seen before, ones with a new spin on them (like Batman, Spiderman) and ones who are new to movies completely (Black Panther, Wonder Woman). There will probably be loads of cameos here and there, and the action will be superb. > [@Anaamika](#): > > Yes, I am looking forward to that, although it is kind of reduced by the presence of Spiderman in one of them (I forget which one). > > I am so fecking tired of Spiderman and his stupid whiny emo issues. I hope all of his dumb little webbing snaps while he’s on top of the Empire State Building and he screams all the way down. :mad: And his girlfriend is seriously annoying too. Spiderman probably won’t do much whining. He’s being added into an existing franchise and the producers have said this isn’t an origin movie. And with so much already going on, I doubt they’ll ad a subplot about his girlfriend. He’ll be a young kid so awed by being next to his heroes that he won’t have time to whine ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/28 "2016-03-18T22:51:01Z")
I’m not overly enthused about Batman v Superman. Unless kryptonite were used, which I’m sure it won’t be as Batman would consider that cheating and beneath him, just how are we to get excited about their fight? Whatever armor and weapons Batman is equipped with, Superman is totally invulnerable, unless his powers have been drastically reduced. Supe could use any one of a range of powers to obliterate the Batman. Picking him up and throwing him into deep space, for instance. What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/29 "2016-03-18T23:08:51Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I will try these movies, both of them. But I still see nothing to convince me to see them in the theatres and not watch them at home. Not an overwhelmingly compelling argument - but there is an internal timeline/consistency to the MCU and if you haven’t seen the previous movies, then you’ve missed some of the table setting for the next movie. If you’ve seen it in the theater, then you’re ready to see the next one in the theater if it looks good. (It was surprisingly inconvenient for me to rent Thor 2 before Winter Soldier came out). For Batman v. Superman, I’ve got nothing. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/30 "2016-03-19T09:36:27Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Unless kryptonite were used, which I’m sure it won’t be as Batman would consider that cheating and beneath him Why do you think that? He never has before (e.g. _The Dark Knight Returns_). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/31 "2016-03-19T13:32:30Z")
I don’t think Batman even has a notion of such a thing as “cheating”. In his world, there is winning, and there is losing, and the former is what he does. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/32 "2016-03-19T13:34:56Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > I’m not overly enthused about Batman v Superman. Unless kryptonite were used, which I’m sure it won’t be as Batman would consider that cheating and beneath him No, Batman would totally use Kryptonite, and would totally consider it cheating, and wouldn’t have a problem with it at all. He’s done both several times before. Same goes for the powered armor batsuit, which came from _The Dark Knight Returns_, a storyline which also featured Superman being weakened by a massive nuke (not Batman’s doing), a battery of anti-air missiles (Batman’s doing), and an arrow loaded with a cloud of kryptonite dust (Green Arrow’s doing). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/33 "2016-03-19T14:16:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why do you think that? He never has before (e.g. _The Dark Knight Returns_). IIRC, there was even a story where Batman reluctantly shoots a mind-controlled Superman with a kryptonite bullet. (He wasn’t really all that reluctant about using kryptonite, you understand; he just has a hang-up about _guns,_ which he of course shrugs off because, hey, it’s the most convenient delivery system.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/34 "2016-03-19T16:11:27Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > an arrow loaded with a cloud of kryptonite dust (Green Arrow’s doing). IIRC, Batman gave Ollie the arrow. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/35 "2016-03-19T16:27:08Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why do you think that? He never has before (e.g. _The Dark Knight Returns_). > [@Raguleader](#): > > No, Batman would totally use Kryptonite, and would totally consider it cheating, and wouldn’t have a problem with it at all. He’s done both several times before. Same goes for the powered armor batsuit, which came from _The Dark Knight Returns_, a storyline which also featured Superman being weakened by a massive nuke (not Batman’s doing), a battery of anti-air missiles (Batman’s doing), and an arrow loaded with a cloud of kryptonite dust (Green Arrow’s doing). _“It would take a fortune and a lifetime to get this, Clark. …I had both.”_ --Bruce (yep, you got it **Mr. Dibble** ) Which BTW is one of my worries about this one. The Bats/Supes confrontation as portrayed in the trailer seems to be at least visually lifted straight from Frank Miller’s version but missing the context - The Dark Knight Returns is an _ **End Myth** _. Not the beginning (though an implied clearing of the table for a new one). It was something that was led towards in an extended arc with heavily implied backstory and reliance on some established canon. If they can succesfully remake it to be part of what **starts** the epic – the “Dawn of Justice” implying creation of the JLA at some later point – then they’ve got something great in their hands. If it’s just an incident setting up for WW showing up and saying “foolish males, don’t you see we should join against a greater threat”, then leading to the real Boss Level, I’ll roll my eyes. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/36 "2016-03-19T16:34:54Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > IIRC, Batman gave Ollie the arrow. And if I too recall correctly, Batman mentions he spent a buttload of money putting it together and specifically used a nonlethal strength. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/37 "2016-03-19T16:49:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And if I too recall correctly, Batman mentions he spent a buttload of money putting it together and specifically used a nonlethal strength. I don’t know if he was shooting for a nonlethal strength in DKR, but it was explicitly his plan in TOWER OF BABEL, where he’s been working on a kryptonite variant that will inflict pain and play havoc with the big guy’s powers without killing him. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/38 "2016-03-19T16:59:49Z")
The arrow **had to be** non-lethal in DKR for the whole plan to work. A dead Supes would just bring the whole US Army down on Our Hero. Plus the whole thing about having to be alive to be taught a lesson. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/39 "2016-03-19T17:16:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The arrow **had to be** non-lethal in DKR for the whole plan to work. A dead Supes would just bring the whole US Army down on Our Hero. Plus the whole thing about having to be alive to be taught a lesson. But **CarnalK** ’s point was that he specifically used a nonlethal strength. I don’t recall any mention of that in DKR; what you say makes sense, but so does figuring Bruce said _meh, he’s been hit with regular-strength kryptonite a bunch of times and he’s still up and around; may as well hit him with regular-strength stuff now._ ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158/40 "2016-03-19T17:23:02Z")
Yeah, I didnt mean to imply he used nonlethal because Batman is such a nice guy, it was part of the plan. No idea where my 30 year old copy is but the wiki plot summary says: > [@](#): > > Batman reveals that he intentionally spared Superman’s life by not using a more powerful kryptonite mix; the fight and near-death experience was meant as a warning to Superman to stay out of Batman’s way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-and-batman-vs-superman-please-help-me-to-get-excited-about-these-movies/749158.md?page=3)