# Civil war comes to America. How exactly is that supposed to work again? What are the victory conditions? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 23, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453 "2022-07-23T20:49:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/21 "2022-07-24T16:54:18Z")
I’d also point out that most farms are huge corporations, loyal to only money. The OP makes it sound like its just Farmer Joe’s out there protecting their land for god and country. It’s likey the corporations would hire their own security forces to protect their profit against Farmer Joe. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/22 "2022-07-24T16:58:29Z")
And also, the idea that every farm is going to be on the fascist side of the war. The last civil war split Virginia into two states, this one will also undoubtedly rewrite states’ maps again. Red state America is incredibly dependent on federal hand outs and when that stops it all collapses. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/23 "2022-07-24T17:00:40Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The internecine strife described in the OP is more reminiscent of the Bloody Kansas period of the 1850s than the Civil War. To become a true civil war there must be, as @Chronos said, a political element to the struggle: some bone of contention, probably one side disputing the legitimacy of the government. eh? That’s exactly what was happening in Kansas: there was a strong ideological / political dispute, with competing governments whose legitimacy was not recognised by the other side, and the use of force to try to resolve those competing claims. See the wikipedia article on [Bleeding Kansas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Kansas): > [@](#): > > Kansas had a state-level civil war that would soon be replicated on a national basis. There were two different capitals (pro-slavery [Lecompton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecompton) and anti-slavery [Lawrence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence,_Kansas) and Topeka), two different constitutions (the pro-slavery [Lecompton Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecompton_Constitution) and the anti-slavery [Topeka Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topeka_Constitution)), and two different legislatures (the so-called “bogus legislature” in Lecompton and the anti-slavery body in Lawrence). Both sides sought and received help from outside, the pro-slavery side from the federal government; Presidents [Franklin Pierce](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_Franklin_Pierce) and [James Buchanan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidency_of_James_Buchanan) openly helped the pro-slavery partisans. Both claimed to reflect the will of the people of Kansas. The pro-slavers used violence and threats of violence, and the free-soilers responded in kind. When you have two competing governments for the same territory, with both sides willing to use force, that’s a civil war. It was localised in Kansas, but it was a civil war within that territory. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/24 "2022-07-24T17:02:30Z")
Obviously, civil war today would never work. But the impression I get of the red tribe’s fantasies is that they involve killing off a major chunk of Team Blue, then taking over the government and creating a new constitution/dictatorship. I’m not sure what Team Blue’s fantasies of civil war victory look like. Maintain the same government but abolish Electoral College, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/25 "2022-07-24T17:10:57Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Obviously, civil war today would never work. That’s what people in Yugoslavia said. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/26 "2022-07-24T19:09:30Z")
Yugoslavia was an uneasy amalgamation of countries with distinct ethnicities, languages and histories (including antipathies) - with populations in distinct and strongly concentrated areas. Though there are a few similarities with the modern US, you would have to persuade me they are sufficiently strong or similar to be much comparable. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/27 "2022-07-24T19:31:26Z")
The need for an uprising escapes me. What’s the battle cry? - Demand Lower literacy rates - No new science - Up your gender dimorphism ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/28 "2022-07-24T19:36:57Z")
- Eat the rich - Defund the police - No electoral college ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/29 "2022-07-24T19:57:43Z")
The rich (and corporations) pay their fair share of taxes. Reform police to be accountable. Ditch the electoral college. Popular vote wins.Walk back gerrymandering. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/30 "2022-07-24T20:06:02Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > eh? That’s exactly what was happening in Kansas: there was a strong ideological / political dispute, with competing governments whose legitimacy was not recognised by the other side, and the use of force to try to resolve those competing claims. See the wikipedia article on [Bleeding Kansas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleeding_Kansas): > [@](#): > > Kansas had a state-level civil war that would soon be replicated on a national basis. There were two different capitals (pro-slavery [Lecompton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecompton) and anti-slavery [Lawrence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence,_Kansas) and Topeka), two different constitutions (the pro-slavery [Lecompton Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecompton_Constitution) and the anti-slavery [Topeka Constitution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topeka_Constitution)), and two different legislatures (the so-called “bogus legislature” in Lecompton and the anti-slavery body in Lawrence). > > When you have two competing governments for the same territory, with both sides willing to use force, that’s a civil war. It was localised in Kansas, but it was a civil war within that territory. Ah, I did not know that there were actually two rival governments. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/31 "2022-07-24T20:28:43Z")
How about Lock Her Up, Stop the Steal and All Lives Matter? ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/32 "2022-07-24T20:52:56Z")
It’s going to be hate versus love, or more realistically tolerance. The fascists are already losing the long game so they are blaming the people they hate to push an attack now. They think they can win now for the reasons stated in the OP. No need for slogans. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/33 "2022-07-24T21:28:12Z")
Actually, you know the fascists will be chanting USA! USA! USA! When ever I hear them doing that it gives me chills, you just know a black guy is going to get beat up that night by 10 patriots. ---
**Author:** ![lum\_s\_husband](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lum_s_husband/32/3698_2.png) [@lum\_s\_husband](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lum_s_husband)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/34 "2022-07-24T22:03:00Z")
There will only be a civil war if the Left gives up the moral high ground and shoots back. Otherwise it will just be sparkling political discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/35 "2022-07-25T20:22:13Z")
Why did the radical Left in the late 1960s and early 1970s briefly flirt with taking up arms, and why isn’t there a similar sentiment today? ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/36 "2022-07-25T23:55:32Z")
For one thing, the rank and file of the radical Left were a lot younger, more fit, and more naive than their present-day counterpart. And the radical Right today are a lot more numerous, better armed, uniified, and itching to actually fight than was their 1960s-era counterpart. [The Minutemen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minutemen_(anti-Communist_organization)) talked a lot about fighting Communists, but they didn’t have mainstream politicans (to include a POTUS) and an entire media telling them they’re the good guys. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/37 "2022-07-25T23:59:38Z")
One thing I have thought about regarding a post CWII situation relates to the 2nd Amendment. RIght now the ultra-right have the most civilian guns, ex and current soldiers, etc. So let’s say they take over a large part or all of the US. The mid and left decide to arm themselves to prepare for CWIII. The ultras notice this and now have to figure out a ban on them doing this without violating their precious “right to bear arms” mentality. That’s going to be tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2022, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453/38 "2022-07-26T12:49:05Z")
The civil war will develop along similar lines to Thurber’s War Between Men And Women. The Proud Boys will invade Whole Foods and be met by a hail of organic produce and canned specialty items. [![](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zn4igeu9IEc/U5L8_mUnmfI/AAAAAAAAAuI/yprM91d6IFo/s1024/Photo%25252020140607075231.jpg) ](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-zn4igeu9IEc/U5L8_mUnmfI/AAAAAAAAAuI/yprM91d6IFo/s1024/Photo%25252020140607075231.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-comes-to-america-how-exactly-is-that-supposed-to-work-again-what-are-the-victory-conditions/968453.md?page=1)