# "Civil War This, Civil War That..." What a Maroon! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731 "2006-08-07T18:19:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/1 "2006-08-07T18:19:49Z")
And the hits just keep on coming… The Man Who Fell Up speaks to the nation, from the brush-clearing capitol of the world, Crawford. (Not Waco, mind you, _The Athens on the Brazos_. Crawford…) [QUOTE=The Leader] “You know, I hear people say, Well, civil war this, civil war that. The Iraqi people decided against civil war when they went to the ballot box.” [/QUOTE] Maybe not the dumbest thing he ever said, maybe not even in the top 500. This year. But Lord God, Jim Bob, the man can’t tie his shoes without stepping on his pecker! You got your generals, Abazaid and Pace, gingerly approaching the blazing fact that civil war is Iraq, and Iraq is civil war. These are the men, mind you, who The Leader swears are his guiding lights, his decisions are guided by the wisdom of the military leaders on the ground. Whose opinions he dismisses with a wave of his hand. But the cherry atop the turd sundae: the Iraqi people “decided against civil war”. That’s what the election was about. Not about electing people who represented one’s sectarian leanings, nosiree Bob! The Leader has peered into the souls of the Iraqi people, as deeply as he did Vlad “The Impaler” Putin and has divined the contents thereof. He knows why they voted, he knows what they voted for. They voted against civil war. Right. I have long struggled with the question: is he really that stupid, or is it that he thinks we are? The envelope please… A barrel of hair, a box of rocks, New Coke. Dumb de dumb dumb, _dumb!_ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/2 "2006-08-07T18:26:04Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Vlad “The Impaler” Putin [/QUOTE] You are being over complimentary to Putin. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/3 "2006-08-07T18:33:37Z")
Well, of course he’s right. Surely we all know [a country that holds an eletion cannot subsequently dissolve into civil war?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1860) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/4 "2006-08-07T18:35:27Z")
I have to say **elucidator** is consistently the best writer I’ve seen on these boards! What flair and novelty. Oh, and Bush is a jackass but we already knew that. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/5 "2006-08-07T18:52:42Z")
[QUOTE=The Leader] “You know, I hear people say, Well, civil war this, civil war that. The Iraqi people decided against civil war when they went to the ballot box.” [/QUOTE] Maybe this isn’t an example of Bush being a dumb ass. Perhaps instead it’s a rare vision of his “chess player’s ability to think several moves ahead.” It opens the way for Condi to ‘honestly’ tell us come October that “no one could have predicted a civil war… but there you have it… and hence we’re initiating a staged withdrawal…” [The balloon is already up](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14206642) for that, but the ground must still be prepared for a full onslaught of the white house’s new rhetoric of victory. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/6 "2006-08-07T19:21:37Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Lance Murdoch] I have to say **elucidator** is consistently the best writer I’ve seen on these boards! What flair and novelty. Oh, and Bush is a jackass but we already knew that. [/QUOTE] [blush] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/7 "2006-08-07T19:21:48Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I have long struggled with the question: is he really that stupid, or is it that he thinks we are? [/QUOTE] In this case, the second, I think. I **hope.** What he really hopes is to keep the lid on just enough for Iraq to become the next administration’s problem. That means he has to paint a rosy enough picture to resist calls for withdrawal – because if he doesn’t, the civil war will break out on **his** watch. (Assuming, you know, it hasn’t already.) ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/8 "2006-08-07T19:46:21Z")
On a related note, how long will asswipes in the media continue to ask whether Iraq has yet reached a civil war? Is the civil war around one of the dozens of corners we’ve turned? Is 100 bodies a day not sufficient to call something a civil war? If it’s not aptly called a civil war, tell me what term would be appropriate. It’s certainly worse than “a bad day in the neighborhood.” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/9 "2006-08-07T19:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] On a related note, how long will asswipes in the media continue to ask whether Iraq has yet reached a civil war? Is the civil war around one of the dozens of corners we’ve turned? Is 100 bodies a day not sufficient to call something a civil war? If it’s not aptly called a civil war, tell me what term would be appropriate. It’s certainly worse than “a bad day in the neighborhood.” [/QUOTE] I’d call it a [failed state.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state) It’s not quite a “civil war” until Sunni and Shi’a forces, or government and rebel forces, are engaging openly on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/10 "2006-08-07T19:53:15Z")
The Decider has decided that there is no civil war in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/11 "2006-08-07T20:12:02Z")
The jury is still out on this too, I guess. Just like evolution. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/12 "2006-08-07T20:24:26Z")
George Stephanopoulos, on his Sunday morning show yesterday, said that he spoke to a general who told him that the only reason it can’t be described as a civil war is that there is no cohesiveness to it, it is just total chaos. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/13 "2006-08-07T20:46:35Z")
[QUOTE=Douglas Quaid] George Stephanopoulos, on his Sunday morning show yesterday, said that he spoke to a general who told him that the only reason it can’t be described as a civil war is that there is no cohesiveness to it, it is just total chaos. [/QUOTE] In other words, Iraq has become a gigantic circular firing squad? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/14 "2006-08-07T20:54:21Z")
Nah, just Sudan. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/15 "2006-08-07T21:09:54Z")
Boy, won’t this thread be fun when **Shodan and Co.** find it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/16 "2006-08-07T21:13:11Z")
[Well, at least we made Iraq safer by getting rid of Saddam](http://onthescene.msnbc.com/baghdad/2006/08/iraq_has_to_be_.html): > [@](#): > > Iraq has to be a serial killer’s paradise. Scores of dead bodies turn up on dumping grounds outside the country’s main cities every morning. Iraqi police reports speak of corpses discovered bound, often showing signs of torture, and shot in the head. And yet nobody is ever arrested and charged with the killings. The overload of bodies prompted Baghdad’s main morgue to announce this week that due to lack of storage space they would from now on keep corpses for only two weeks before burying them in mass graves. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/17 "2006-08-07T21:17:55Z")
Of Course there’s no Civil War\*. \*that damn Texan would have to be born 150 years earlier to say that in Crawford and get what he truly deserves… ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/18 "2006-08-07T21:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I have long struggled with the question: is he really that stupid, or is it that he thinks we are? The envelope please… [/QUOTE] I have struggled with this too, and I think the answer is that he is just stupid enough to believe his own egotistical bullshit, enhanced by his belief that he is doing God’s work. Add to that a cadre of sycophants and a vault full of “political capital” and you have the poorest excuse for a president in living memory. “The Man Who Fell Up.” Good stuff. I’ve been spreading it around. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/19 "2006-08-07T22:36:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I’d call it a [failed state.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failed_state) It’s not quite a “civil war” until Sunni and Shi’a forces, or government and rebel forces, are engaging openly on the battlefield. [/QUOTE] That won’t happen - not until US forces leave. Airstrikes, ya know. It will have to be low intensity because anything too open invites Daddy to smack you down. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731/20 "2006-08-08T00:36:49Z")
Any takers on what month/year we get to see the choppers lifting off the last of our guys from the roof of the US embassy? Don’t the fuckers ever learn? [sub]That was rhetorical and requires no answer[/sub] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civil-war-this-civil-war-that-what-a-maroon/367731.md?page=2)