# Civilians acting as diplomats in history? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 13, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018 "2018-06-13T12:47:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/1 "2018-06-13T12:47:45Z")
A recent discussion if where Dennis rodman’s visiting North Korea and Meeting Kim might have helped open the door for better relations. I’d like to ask, is there a record of any other persons in history meeting with oppressive leaders and helping to open doors that normal diplomats could not? The one I can think of is[Helen Keller visiting Japan in 1937](https://www.afb.org/blog/afb-blog/helen-on-helen-helen-kellers-travels-through-japan/12). While not stopping WW2 she did make a positive impression. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/2 "2018-06-13T13:45:53Z")
Muhammad Ali, going to Iraq to free 15 US hostages: [How Muhammad Ali secured the release of 15 US hostages in Iraq](https://nypost.com/2015/11/29/the-tale-of-muhammad-alis-goodwill-trip-to-iraq-that-freed-us-hostages/) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/3 "2018-06-13T14:18:04Z")
[Birger Dahlerus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birger_Dahlerus) was once the world’s best chance to avoid World War II. With other businessmen, he > [@](#): > > attempted to persuade Göring that the British government would stand by its treaty obligations to Poland, which obliged it to support the Polish government in any conflict in which it became embroiled. Dahlerus believed that they had succeeded. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/4 "2018-06-13T16:07:04Z")
A few years ago there was an article in my paper (in Northern New Jersey) about how the State Department would use a Jersey Diner owner to communicate with North Korea because NK UN reps would often go to his place to eat and they liked and trusted him. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/5 "2018-06-13T16:49:28Z")
John Scali, a reporter for ABC, [was used as a go-between by the USSR and USA](https://www.cfr.org/blog/twe-remembers-john-scali-has-lunch-khrushchev-writes-kennedy-castro-writes-khrushchev-cuban) during the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/6 "2018-06-13T18:52:09Z")
James B. Donovan [James B. Donovan - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_B._Donovan) , played by Tom Hanks in _Bridge of Spies_. Helped get Gary Powers out of Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/7 "2018-06-13T19:32:15Z")
I once read Robert Ripley of “Ripleys believe It Or Not Fame”, well his newspaper illustrations were so popular around the world all kinds of kings and dictators would contact him about the odd and strange things in their countries. He was very upset about the communist takeover of China which destroyed alot of old Chinese cultural icons. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/8 "2018-06-13T19:33:09Z")
Foot-soccer stay Didier Drogba more or less single handedly managed to win [a ceasefire](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/international/2318500/Didier-Drogba-brings-peace-to-the-Ivory-Coast.html) in the Ivorian civil war, though that didn’t involve a foreign power. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/9 "2018-06-13T20:16:33Z")
Jesse Jackson has acted as a diplomat with [Yugoslavia, Syria, Cuba, and Iraq](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/1999/05/how_does_jesse_jackson_do_it.html) without congressional or presidential approval. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/10 "2018-06-13T21:14:11Z")
There were a number of civilian intermediaries that helped bring the Northern Ireland ‘Troubles’ to an end, though my google-fu is failing me at identifying them. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/11 "2018-06-13T23:28:39Z")
These are all pretty visible - I expect there must also be behind-the-scenes diplomatic efforts that never get public recognition. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/12 "2018-06-14T00:57:43Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > These are all pretty visible - I expect there must also be behind-the-scenes diplomatic efforts that never get public recognition. There are lots that are behind the scenes, and there are lots that are not exactly secret, but fairly low profile. One of the things a professional diplomat does is to foster non-governmental contacts in the country he is in. So he meets lots of what the OP refers to as “civilians”, and he is particularly interested in meeting well-connected or influential ones. Similarly, most governments will seek to foster contacts with their citizens, or the descendants of their citizens, residing abroad, and won’t hesitate to use them as channels of communication, if that looks like it might be productive. Plus there are lots of non-governmental agencies that get used to establish communication, or lower tension. Clerics often turn up in this context. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/13 "2018-06-14T02:27:13Z")
[quote=“Urbanredneck, post:1, topic:816018”] Civilians acting as diplomats in history?/QUOTE] Almost all diplomats are indeed _civilians._ Not very many active military as ambassadors, altho Military attaches are often in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/14 "2018-06-14T02:29:24Z")
**Civilians acting as diplomats in history?** Almost all diplomats are indeed _civilians._ Not very many active military as ambassadors, altho Military attaches are often in uniform. Let us squelch this- unless you are in the military, you are a civilian. Cops are (except some MPs and those in the reserves) civilians. I think the better term here is “non-professional”. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/15 "2018-06-14T02:34:42Z")
terry waite via the Anglican church tried to get the hostages back home in the 80s until they didn’t let him come back one time ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2018, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/16 "2018-06-14T05:27:31Z")
Jimmy Carter was acting as a civilian when he played a crucial role in averting the [1994 Haiti Crisis.](https://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/20/world/mission-to-haiti-diplomacy-on-the-brink-of-war-a-tense-battle-of-wills.html) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/17 "2018-06-25T16:46:30Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > terry waite via the Anglican church tried to get the hostages back home in the 80s until they didn’t let him come back one time Waite was an official envoy of the Archbishop of Canterbury. So while he wasn’t a government official, he wasn’t really a civilian. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/18 "2018-06-25T17:14:23Z")
The King personally conducted his government’s diplomacy with FDR during his 1939 visit to North America, under the guise of a ‘private stay at the President’s estate’. The usual State Department channels were bypassed to prevent it all leaking to the isolationists. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/19 "2018-06-25T20:13:40Z")
Pretty sure a reigning monarch is about as far from “civilian” as you can get. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018/20 "2018-06-25T21:10:43Z")
John Kerry met with the Palestinian Authority earlier this year and reportedly offered foreign policy advice. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-acting-as-diplomats-in-history/816018.md?page=2)