# Civilians pretending they're guarding recruiters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929 "2015-07-23T04:55:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/61 "2015-07-24T02:57:21Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > That is, unless I’m sorely mistaken, precisely the point. Kudos for skillfully zeroing in on that enormous bullseye. I am afraid your attempt at scathing sarcasm or wit has left me only confused. The point is, these attacks have only started occurring recently, thus the Military should get it;s act together and allow it’s men to be armed- with proper training, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/62 "2015-07-24T04:06:36Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I always think to myself “self, the United States needs to be more like a third-world country, let’s have armed military roaming the streets.” I admire men like yourself who are willing to work to make that happen. I always think to myself, “self, someone who would post something that stupid has got to be doing so because they choose to deliberately misinterpret what I said.” And then I hope that I am right in thinking that. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/63 "2015-07-24T04:18:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I am afraid your attempt at scathing sarcasm or wit has left me only confused. The point is, these attacks have only started occurring recently, thus the Military should get it;s act together and allow it’s men to be armed- with proper training, etc. “These attacks”? How many shootings have occurred at Armed Forces recruiting stations? In other news, maybe, just maybe, these “yokels milling around in parking lots” should have been defending [cinemas](http://www.aol.com/article/2015/07/23/official-2-dead-in-movie-theater-shooting-including-gunman/21213405/) instead. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/64 "2015-07-24T04:47:00Z")
Questions for those who think Armed Forces recruiters should be armed: [ol][li]Should they be armed at all times, or only while performing their recruiting duties?[/li][li]If armed, what weapon should the be issued and what controls should be in place to ensure the security of the weapon?[/li][li]If the recruiters should be armed, why shouldn’t all members of the Armed Forces be armed?[/li]Where do you think this nonsense should stop?[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/65 "2015-07-24T05:09:15Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Hey, it says he was trying to unload it before handing it over when it went off. He wasn’t being completely trusting. Yes he was too being completely trusting. He completely trusted _himself_ to be able to handle that Big Stick he was carrying. As we have now seen, that proved to be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/66 "2015-07-24T05:49:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > “These attacks”? How many shootings have occurred at Armed Forces recruiting stations? There’s also the 2009 Fort Hood shooting. And here’s a list: > **[A History of Shootings at Military Installations in the U.S.](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/a-history-of-shootings-at-military-installations-in-the-us/1953672/)** > > The history of gun attacks at military facilities in the United States in many ways reflects those in society at large: they run the gamut from domestic attacks and drunken fights to politically motivated massacres, including the 2009 killing of 13... The attacks dont have to be just at Armed Forces recruiting stations, you know. The shooting started there but ended at a naval training center. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/67 "2015-07-24T05:50:52Z")
[quote=“Monty, post:64, topic:725929”] Questions for those who think Armed Forces recruiters should be armed: [ol][li]Should they be armed at all times, or only while performing their recruiting duties?[/li][li]If armed, what weapon should the be issued and what controls should be in place to ensure the security of the weapon?[/li][li]If the recruiters should be armed, why shouldn’t all members of the Armed Forces be armed?[/li][li]Where do you think this nonsense should stop?[/ol][/li][/QUOTE] What nonsense? Don’t you trust a member _of the fucking military_ to be armed? They should be armed with normal issue sidearms, if trained, and certified in their use, and they want to be so armed. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/68 "2015-07-24T07:31:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What nonsense? Don’t you trust a member _of the fucking military_ to be armed? The nonsense is this incredible over-reaction to the incident. Sure, I trust a member of the military to be armed when the requirements of the job at hand necessitate said member being armed. Working in a recruiting office does not require sporting a firearm. > [@](#): > > They should be armed with normal issue sidearms, if trained, and certified in their use, and they want to be so armed. Nope. Can’t agree with that. That’s not the case on the bases and that makes sense. This might come as a surprise to you, but there’s a lot more to being in the military than carrying a weapon around with you. If the weapon is not necessary for the immediate duties, then there is really no reason to issue a weapon. Another thing is that most enlisted men don’t get “normal issue sidearms”; they get issued rifles when a rifle is required for the duty at hand. Of course, there’s also the issue of maintaining the weapon and securing the weapon. Training, certifying, and retraining, not to mention procuring enough of the “normal issue sidearms” (by the way, that’s not an actual thing) to have everyone–why stop with just arming the recruiters, hey?–issued that sidearm would be a major production that is actually not needed. Even during actual wars, military members did not carry weapons unless their immediate duties actually required it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/69 "2015-07-24T07:36:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > There’s also the 2009 Fort Hood shooting. I seem to recall that dude being a member of the Armed Forces. So if an “all members of the Armed Forces must be armed” policy had been in place then, the dude would’ve been walking around with a government-issued weapon. Many of the shooters in your list happened to be in the military, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/70 "2015-07-24T12:47:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What nonsense? Don’t you trust a member _of the fucking military_ to be armed? > > They should be armed with normal issue sidearms, if trained, and certified in their use, and they want to be so armed. I wasn’t allowed to carry a loaded weapon around most of the time _in Iraq_. Sure I had a weapon and ammo but one did not touch the other until needed. The military recognizes that carrying a loaded weapon is a risk. To mitigate that risk the military has always limited allowing troops to carry loaded weapons to situations where there is an immediate need. Even still over 100 soldiers died in Iraq due to negligent discharges of weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/71 "2015-07-24T12:52:38Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Many of the shooters in your list happened to be in the military, by the way. Almost all. But if you allow more to be armed there will be less. Or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/72 "2015-07-24T13:25:57Z")
The guys in the pictures look no different from Dylann Roof. If you put them all together, would you be able to distinguish the Good Guys With Guns from the Bad Guy(s)? In time to make a difference? If you’re only allowed to carry an unloaded weapon _on military guard duty_, then why carry it at all? Does it have some effect on the thinking of people who see it, some effect that civilian open-carry advocates think should not happen and is actually a sign of a mental disorder? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/73 "2015-07-24T14:21:43Z")
I think this stuff is kind of stupid - if, as Debaser says, it’s a “symbolic gesture,” they should be unarmed - but I also think it’s pretty unfair to tar and feather all these people as racists and yokels. They may very well be racists and yokels, but I certainly haven’t seen any evidence of the former in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/74 "2015-07-24T14:37:04Z")
[parenthetical] Am I imagining it, or do the (American) “arm the soldiers 24/7” advocates on these threads mostly people who did NOT serve, while the actual veterans are mostly those explaining why not? [/parenthetical] ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/75 "2015-07-24T14:40:45Z")
People need to stop coming down so hard on that Reed guy. He only shot the asphalt because it was black. Clearly self defense. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/76 "2015-07-24T14:43:21Z")
And it was _coming right at him!_ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/77 "2015-07-24T14:47:40Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > [parenthetical] > Am I imagining it, or do the (American) “arm the soldiers 24/7” advocates on these threads mostly people who did NOT serve, while the actual veterans are mostly those explaining why not? > [/parenthetical] It does seem that way, but it’s important to remember that the SDMB is a bastion of liberalism (and, dare I say, common sense) even among its veterans. I think **Loach** and **Monty** would agree that for every service member who thinks as they do, there are a dozen service members who think it’s ridiculous that they can’t go around bristling with firearms at all times. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/78 "2015-07-24T15:35:45Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > [parenthetical] > Am I imagining it, or do the (American) “arm the soldiers 24/7” advocates on these threads mostly people who did NOT serve, while the actual veterans are mostly those explaining why not? > [/parenthetical] I wonder if there is any overlap with the Jade Helm/Obama is coming for our guns crowd. Because you would think they wouldn’t want the troops that are tools of the evil president to carry weapons on US soil. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It does seem that way, but it’s important to remember that the SDMB is a bastion of liberalism (and, dare I say, common sense) even among its veterans. I think **Loach** and **Monty** would agree that for every service member who thinks as they do, there are a dozen service members who think it’s ridiculous that they can’t go around bristling with firearms at all times. There is some of that. Most of those who were in command positions have flashes of how horrifically wrong it can go. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/79 "2015-07-24T15:48:33Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I wasn’t allowed to carry a loaded weapon around most of the time _in Iraq_. Sure I had a weapon and ammo but one did not touch the other until needed. The military recognizes that carrying a loaded weapon is a risk. To mitigate that risk the military has always limited allowing troops to carry loaded weapons to situations where there is an immediate need. Even still over 100 soldiers died in Iraq due to negligent discharges of weapons. Carrying loaded weapons results in increased risk, even for trained soldiers? Imagine that. (Thank you for this post, by the way–good perspective) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929/80 "2015-07-24T15:57:08Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It does seem that way, but it’s important to remember that the SDMB is a bastion of liberalism (and, dare I say, common sense) even among its veterans. I think **Loach** and **Monty** would agree that for every service member who thinks as they do, there are a dozen service members who think it’s ridiculous that they can’t go around bristling with firearms at all times. Oh, I have no doubt that there are service members who think they should always be packing. I don’t think, though, that it’s as prevalent as you do. Another thing is that the military really isn’t looking for trigger happy folks. “I want to join the Army so I can pack some heat like Rambo” isn’t exactly an attitude conducive to a long military career. > [@Loach](#): > > I wonder if there is any overlap with the Jade Helm/Obama is coming for our guns crowd. Because you would think they wouldn’t want the troops that are tools of the evil president to carry weapons on US soil. Yeah. Oh, you can check out post #4 in this thread, too. > [@](#): > > There is some of that. Most of those who were in command positions have flashes of how horrifically wrong it can go. Completely agree. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilians-pretending-theyre-guarding-recruiters/725929.md?page=5)