# Civilization V Update **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 17, 2012, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410 "2012-06-17T07:49:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/21 "2012-06-19T15:56:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Cicero** : > > I had no great problem with the stacking but recognise that you can only place so many Army Divisions in a space in the real world. Sure, but one tile in a Civ game is what, a hundred miles on a side? You can fit a _lot_ of troops in a space that big. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/22 "2012-06-19T16:35:23Z")
The “Gods & Kings” expansion was released on Steam last night. ---
**Author:** ![HookerChemical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@HookerChemical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HookerChemical)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/23 "2012-06-19T17:40:51Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Ditto. > > Stack of Doom was problematic, but one-unit-per-hex was going too far. Limiting stacks to, say, 3 units would mean you still have to make choices: two spearmen defending one swordsman is strong defensively, but weak on offense, etc. Ranged and mounted units would have similarly have plusses and minuses as part of a mixed force, and make tactical thinking important. > > As it is, a huge part of my military strategy involves putting one hard-to-kill unit (say, a Janissary or a Samurai) on favorable terrain (say, guarding a pass in the mountains) and forcing the enemy to fight one-on-one. They might outnumber me 5 or 6 to one, but I still win. I like to one unit per hex more than the stack of doom of the old versions, but I agree that a limited stack is probably best. I think I’ve seen similar things in computer games. I know I’ve seen this in board games, such as Twilight Imperium and one other . . . what was that one . . . ? I know! Civilization! As in “uses the same graphics because it was developed at the same time and is licensed from the video game” Civilization. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/24 "2012-06-19T18:29:33Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Sure, but one tile in a Civ game is what, a hundred miles on a side? You can fit a _lot_ of troops in a space that big. You can’t really ascribe a particular unit size in Civ. A mechanized infantry division deployed by the United States today in full battle array would number some 20,000 troops, occupying a frontage of many kilometers and exercising destructive inflence and control for many kilometres of depth in front of it. That still represents a small fraction of American peacetime military might. By the end of a big game you’ve got dozens of those things running around, and if you are assuming they represent anything logically equivalent in the real world, a “modern tank” is not just a whole bunch of tanks, it’s an armored division, which also features infantry, rotary aviation assets, divisional artillery, anti-air assets, an engineer company, signals and EW, supply and transport assets, armored reconnaissance, special forces units, so on and so forth. It’s a biiiiig unit. But 20,000 troops would have been a genuinely immense army in classical times, the sort of force only a great empire could field, and even then would occupy a frontage of no more than two thousand yards and influence and control over nothing that could not been seen with the human eye. The units in classical times can’t possibly be equivalent in size to modern units. The modern capability to field enormous armies is just sensationally huge compared to what they could do in the olden days; it’s really only relatively recently, in historical terms, that the matter of actually fitting your available troops into the space provided became an issue in normal warfare. I like the one-per-hex rule solely because it gives the game the POTENTIAL for far more interesting warfare. As it happens, the computer sucks at it, with robs the single player experience of some of its balance and fun; multiplayer it’s super awesome, though. I think the solution is better AI, not to go back to stacks of doom, which removes all field strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/25 "2012-06-19T18:38:40Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The “Gods & Kings” expansion was released on Steam last night. And is [on sale for $21.89](http://www.getgamesgo.com/product/civilization-v-gods-and-kings-us) at GetGamesGo. It’s a Steamworks game so it doesn’t matter where you buy it from, it still activates on Steam. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/26 "2012-06-19T20:00:10Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Stack of Doom was problematic, but one-unit-per-hex was going too far. Limiting stacks to, say, 3 units would mean you still have to make choices: I have no idea as to how viable it is in CivV, but mods that try to limit stack size in CivIV causes the AI to to get confused. Several have tried to do it, and it always fails. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/27 "2012-06-19T20:01:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Unless they’re modding the game before it’s released, I’m not sure that’s really relevant to what I was saying. > > [2K Games is a wholly owned subsidiary of Take 2 Interactive.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2K_Games) And I never said they were the developer. As I said, I was nit-picking. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/28 "2012-06-19T20:22:27Z")
One unit per hex is mechanically fairly silly in what it does to the ability to concentrate forces. There are solutions to the doom stack problem without just throwing out stacking entirely. Alpha Centauri had two mechanics that were fairly effective: a successful attack against the top unit of the stack caused collateral damage to other units in the stack, and an attack by ranged units damaged all units in the stack equally. The real problem is that the Civilization series is extraordinarily resistant to change. Even the tech tree has changed surprisingly little from Civ 1 to Civ 5. ---
**Author:** ![srzss05](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/898d66/32.png) [@srzss05](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/srzss05)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/29 "2012-06-19T20:39:30Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > The real problem is that the Civilization series is extraordinarily resistant to change. Even the tech tree has changed surprisingly little from Civ 1 to Civ 5. For people that play “vanilla”, yes. But a great number don’t play unmodded. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/30 "2012-06-19T21:44:30Z")
> [@srzss05](#): > > As I said, I was nit-picking. Sorry if that came off a bit short. Insomnia makes me bitchy. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/31 "2012-06-19T22:02:06Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The “Gods & Kings” expansion was released on Steam last night. I wonder how many people are going to shell out twenty or thirty bucks for it now, what with the Steam Summer Sale a week or two away. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/32 "2012-06-19T22:05:34Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > I wonder how many people are going to shell out twenty or thirty bucks for it now, what with the Steam Summer Sale a week or two away. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/33 "2012-06-19T22:31:59Z")
There’s about a zero percent chance it’ll be part of the Steam sale for more than 25% off and I wouldn’t expect it on sale at all. The big discounts are on stuff 6-12+ months old where the sales have tapered off. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/34 "2012-06-20T00:41:02Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The “Gods & Kings” expansion was released on Steam last night. Just in North America though. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/35 "2012-06-20T01:47:19Z")
[Positive review for the expansion](http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/civilization-v-gods-and-kings-review-manifested-destiny/2012/06/19/gJQA75gCoV_story.html) [Less glowing but still positive](http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-kings/1225133p1.html) [Back to glowing](http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/19/civilization-v-gods-and-kings-review?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ign%2Farticles+%28IGN+All+Articles%29) For the $21 it seems worth the shot. Even if it DID hit 30% off on Steam, that’s saving all of a buck. Or the $21 sale could end, it doesn’t go on sale with Steam (as I suspect) and you pay the full $30 if you want it now. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/36 "2012-06-20T02:57:22Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > There’s about a zero percent chance it’ll be part of the Steam sale for more than 25% off and I wouldn’t expect it on sale at all. The big discounts are on stuff 6-12+ months old where the sales have tapered off. I meant that within a couple of weeks, $30 is going to be able to get you about ten times as much computer game as this one expansion pack. If your game purchases are at all budget-constrained, this is far from the best week to be buying things full-price. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/37 "2012-06-20T03:25:54Z")
I just checked. It is available here tomorrow- for USD $45. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/38 "2012-06-20T03:49:43Z")
Maybe you can have someone in the States buy it for you and send you the key? Do GetGamesGo and Green Man Gaming apply the “Aussie tax”? ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/39 "2012-06-20T03:54:15Z")
Jophiel, I checked the GetGamesGo site thanks and it is coming up as three zones- USA, UK and Rest of the World. (I’m not sure I’m happy being lumped in with Somalia but there you go). And it is coming up as a pre sale. From the reports that have been posted about it, it looks pretty good so I’ll probably end up springing the $45 tomorrow. The cat can go hungry- I am sure he will understand. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2012, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410/40 "2012-06-20T04:57:20Z")
Might also want to check [GamersGate](http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-CIV5GKEP/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gods-and-kings-expansion-pack). They don’t have it on sale but they’re based out of Sweden (vs Steam out of the US and GMG/GGG both out of the UK). I really have no idea if there’s a way to circumvent the Australian upcharge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-v-update/625410.md?page=3)