# Civilization VI Announced! Coming Oct 21st!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [May 11, 2016, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552 "2016-05-11T15:25:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/61 "2016-05-14T14:10:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Can I believe that spearmen could routinely defeat tanks? Of course not. But can I believe that once, in all of history, with a perfect storm of lucky conditions, a spearman just might have beaten a tank? Sure. [Spearman vs. Tank](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tGDSAs_uU4) (Actually more like cavalry vs. tank, but still.) Loved Civ4, but thoroughly hated just about every change made in Civ5. The one change that killed it for me was how units cross oceans; instead of loading them onto transport ships, they…cobble together rafts and paddle across??? Srsly??? 😕 With Civ6, as with Civ5 it’s gonna be “wait and see” to see how the new changes pan out. Not happy at all about retaining the one-unit-per-hex rule, but having city slots for buildings & wonders sounds very intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/62 "2016-05-14T21:17:24Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Loved Civ4, but thoroughly hated just about every change made in Civ5. The one change that killed it for me was how units cross oceans; instead of loading them onto transport ships, they…cobble together rafts and paddle across Disagree there. This was a huge improvement which trimmed out the almost useless transport ships. Again, it’s an abstract mechanic that replaced a very specific one, and overall was appropriate for the genre. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/63 "2016-05-14T22:33:12Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > The one change that killed it for me was how units cross oceans; instead of loading them onto transport ships, they…cobble together rafts and paddle across??? Srsly??? 😕 More like, you are automatically assumed to have transport vessels at an appropriate technology level, but the logistics of producing them and moving them around are abstracted away. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/64 "2016-05-14T22:46:42Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > The one change that killed it for me was how units cross oceans; instead of loading them onto transport ships, they…cobble together rafts and paddle across??? Srsly??? 😕 That was probably the single greatest change they made in Civ V. Loved it. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/65 "2016-05-15T22:02:48Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Part of the problem for me is that I think I need impossibly large armies to take even a single city in Civ V - it feels like my empire’s entire production goes towards cranking out units which get slaughtered as they try and take a city belonging to a civ at a lower tech level than I am. Even what I would consider a relatively minor conflict required World War II levels of mobilisation, it seemed. > > In one game, I’d become involved in a war against the Aztecs (because we’ve all been there) and they had three or four cities on a medium-sized island uncomfortably close to my capital city. So I invaded the island. And even with every. single. hex on that island filled with my military units, it still took a huge amount of time and the loss of huge numbers of units to capture the cities; I looked at the bulk of the Aztec cities elsewhere and just thought “I cannot be bothered.” It sounds like you have the wrong mix of units. You need to use siege units to take down cities. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/66 "2016-05-16T05:24:24Z")
Put me down as another person who heartily approved of the change in how units cross the ocean. The old way made things such an enormous chore. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/67 "2016-05-16T11:19:52Z")
But isn’t crossing an ocean with an army _supposed_ to be an enormous chore? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/68 "2016-05-16T11:36:10Z")
At least in Civ 2, it’s not that tough. Transports are cheap, hold several units, and are fast enough to avoid most enemy warships, assuming you don’t blunder into them. I’ve never found them to be all that cumbersome. I did play a game back in the 80s called Command HQ which also abstracted transports. You could have any land unit cross the sea, but if they ran into a warship they were dead meat in an instant. As long as Civ doesn’t allow them to fight back effectively at sea then it’s not really a problem. But if your tank is blowing away destroyers as if they were infantry units then that’s not realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/69 "2016-05-16T16:09:12Z")
I loved Civ1 and Civ2. I’ve played all of them since. But once I discovered Europa Universalis, I’ve spent more and more time with Paradox games. They’re the only strategy games I play anymore (mostly CK2, but EU4 also and now Stellaris). The only thing Paradox lacks compared with Civ is the dawn of history to futuristic sweep in a single game. But it’s not enough to draw me back into Civ. > [@adaher](#): > > I did play a game back in the 80s called Command HQ which also abstracted transports. You could have any land unit cross the sea, but if they ran into a warship they were dead meat in an instant. As long as Civ doesn’t allow them to fight back effectively at sea then it’s not really a problem. But if your tank is blowing away destroyers as if they were infantry units then that’s not realistic. That was a fun game. They had a mechanic that I haven’t seen elsewhere: units occupied multiple “squares”. Each unit occupied 3x3 squares. The center square of each unit could not overlap with the center square of any other units. The outer eight squares could overlap. Allied units would defensively help each other when overlapped. Enemy units would fight each other when overlapped. The greater the overlap, the greater the interaction (for good or bad). This simple mechanic allowed for control of the density of the front. Allied units separated by two squares would act as a perimeter–enemy units could not slip through without engaging. Or, you could overlap allied units at maximum overlap, which forces an advancing enemy to engage at least three units. Six, if the front was two-deep and the enemy advanced deeper. One of the more interesting tile-based war mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/70 "2016-05-16T20:25:47Z")
Yeah, I used to really dig that part of it. Plus it was an early real time game. I like turn based games because it’s just easier to handle, it’s not about issuing as many orders as possible as quickly as possible, but turn based is also very unrealistic. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/71 "2016-05-16T21:10:49Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It sounds like you have the wrong mix of units. You need to use siege units to take down cities. This. I’ve been replaying a lot of Civ5 due to the Civ6 announcement. My “take city” attack package is 5 siege units, 3 ground troops, 3 ranged troops. This will drop a city in 3 turns at most. A useful cheese tactic is cheap chaff troops that will die in 1-2 hits from city defenses, the AI will target these instead of your siege units, leaving them unmolested to pound the city to rubble. Once you get to howitzers with a 3-hex shooting distance, taking cities is even easier. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/72 "2016-05-17T04:52:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But isn’t crossing an ocean with an army _supposed_ to be an enormous chore? I just didn’t find that having to fiddle with transport ships particularly enhanced the game experience for me. On the other hand, in a recent Civ V game that I was playing, when I wanted to invade the landmass where the Incans were, I just selected each of my units, chose a destination and said, “Sic 'em, boy!” I enjoyed the hell out of that! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/73 "2016-05-17T22:23:10Z")
But do you also enjoy it when your opponent does the same to you? I like being able to trust that an ocean makes for a (relatively) secure border. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/74 "2016-05-17T22:36:56Z")
It still does if the units are particularly vulnerable at sea. If they have the same attack power at sea as on land then the seas are pretty meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/75 "2016-05-17T23:09:52Z")
In Civ 5, embarked units suffer pretty hefty penalties when in the water. They get wrecked by naval units. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/76 "2016-05-18T05:12:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But isn’t crossing an ocean with an army _supposed_ to be an enormous chore? I’m glad _somebody_ agrees with me… Besides, the way “transports” were handled in Civ5 was stupid and unrealistic, giving off images of D-Day troops crossing the English Channel in primitive Kon-Tiki style rafts. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/77 "2016-05-19T06:38:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But do you also enjoy it when your opponent does the same to you? I like being able to trust that an ocean makes for a (relatively) secure border. Well, as a general rule, I don’t enjoy being invaded. 🙂 I’d argue that even with the rule change, the oceans may not be as secure a border as before, but they aren’t a free path to my front door, either. As it’s already been stated, embarked units are very easy pickings, so if I didn’t bother stationing a couple of ships to watch out for an invasion fleet, then I really don’t have anybody but myself to blame when the bad guys start coming ashore looking to fuck shit up. I do agree with **buddha\_david** that the way it looks when the units hop into the water doesn’t look all that great. But that’s a fault of the animation, not the general concept. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/78 "2016-05-19T15:48:34Z")
I see Gandhi’s in the teaser. I hope everyone remembers that he has NUCLEAR WEAPONS! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/79 "2016-05-19T16:20:36Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I see Gandhi’s in the teaser. I hope everyone remembers that he has NUCLEAR WEAPONS! that BASTARD. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552/80 "2016-05-19T16:32:54Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Besides, the way “transports” were handled in Civ5 was stupid and unrealistic, giving off images of D-Day troops crossing the English Channel in primitive Kon-Tiki style rafts. Well I **guess** it’s unrealistic, but so is the notion of an immortal Zombie George Washington who has been leading the nation of America since prehistory, guiding them through glorious golden ages whilst they lounge in the Hanging Gardens of Babylon in the shadow of the Great Wall of China, both of which they built. It’s a game about broad strokes - not so much about realistic details. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civilization-vi-announced-coming-oct-21st/754552.md?page=5)