# Civvies gifted with real (not honorary) military ranks? WTF? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2025, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119 "2025-06-25T13:48:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/61 "2025-06-27T12:56:10Z")
Thanks. I was only familiar with the military accommodations in another country. And there the senior officers housing and food was on a different universe than enlisted. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/62 "2025-06-27T19:25:14Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > And the hoary barracks lawyer aphorism that claims that military medical doctors are officers because that makes their medical orders lawful orders from a superior officer, so they can court-martial you for not taking your meds. šŸ¤Ø Supposedly nurses were made officers for similar reasons. Another version is that they were made officers so male officers could date them. In both cases the real reason was because rgdy had to spend multiple years in education and training just start working in their professions. Speaking of WWII; them the womenā€™s services were started up (WACs, WAVES, etc) the women leading them were granted direct commissions out of necessity. They came from a variety of fields, but alot were from teaching and college administrators. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/63 "2025-06-27T22:05:48Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Also, does the military ever use people it doesnā€™t commission, like on a consultant basis? In what circumstances would they do this? DOD and individual branches employ hundreds of thousands (if not a million) civilians and plenty of consultants and contractors. Briefly, examples of folks I know include civilians managing logistics or working in IT or managing research programs. Consultants I know are contractors either working for a larger company or as an S corp of one providing short term expertise. Although sometimes that spills into staff augmentation ā€œbutts in seatsā€. I and others can flesh that out but Iā€™m checking if @Czarcasm would prefer that occur elsewhere. I recall a former DARPA PM (a civilian position) telling me he was given some sort of ā€œrank equivalentā€ when visiting a base to facilitate getting whatever it was he needed from people there. But it was high enough that it triggered excitement amongst the protocol droids when he arrived, who dragged out the officer managing the facility to meet him unnecessarily. Iā€™m probably mangling the story, and this guy struck me as someone who didnā€™t care much to let facts get in the way. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2025, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/64 "2025-06-27T22:23:57Z")
My dad was a senior VP of a very large defense contractor. When he visited the Pentagon or other military facilities, he had the highest possible civilian ā€œrankā€. It was equivalent to some level of general below four stars. It meant that a full colonel was his escort and people paid attention. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/65 "2025-06-29T03:06:27Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > DOD and individual branches employ hundreds of thousands (if not a million) civilians and plenty of consultants and contractors. Briefly, examples of folks I know include civilians managing logistics or working in IT or managing research programs. Iā€™ve got a buddy who does pretty much VIP IT and PC support for the Air Force in San Antonio. Heā€™s an ex-Army officer, so he knows the landscape and lingo well enough. From what I understand, the military puts a fair amount of effort into making sure that soldiers/airmen/sailors/marines are doing stuff thatā€™s pertinent to their branchā€™s roles, not doing everyday support work like mowing or serving lunch that they can easily and cheaply contract out on base. I suspect this is a result of the all-volunteer force; if theyā€™ve got someone willing to sign up to be a soldier, theyā€™re going to make them a soldier, not someone who does grunt work. When they had the draft, they had a lot of manpower, so it wasnā€™t a big deal to detail some low level people to mow the lawns, cook the potatoes, or do whatever sort of menial labor like that, because they were already getting paid, and they werenā€™t so worried about retention. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/66 "2025-06-29T08:13:41Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > My dad was a senior VP of a very large defense contractor. When he visited the Pentagon or other military facilities, he had the highest possible civilian ā€œrankā€. It was equivalent to some level of general below four stars. It meant that a full colonel was his escort and people paid attention. Right, it was probably not an honorary _military_ rankā€” the civil service has its own pay grades, of course, and there is a Senior Executive classification that would be equivalent to general officer rank. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/67 "2025-06-29T08:35:35Z")
There was this one guy who was promoted from private to Colonel, just for selling fried chicken. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2025, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/68 "2025-06-29T13:22:06Z")
Thereā€™s a little Momā€™nā€™Pop fried chicken place near me. Been there unchanged since the 1960s. Their chicken is GRRRRE-E-E-E-A-A-A-T (to mix our marketing metaphors šŸ˜‰ ). Anyhow they have a big grease-encrusted sign on the wall: > If the Colonel had our recipe, heā€™d be a General by now. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2025, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/69 "2025-08-06T22:22:15Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > They want her to be a mouthpiece for the Front. She has no military background. A friend told me she could be a commissioned officer, but thatā€¦ complicates things. Sheā€™d be disobeying a lot of orders. Iā€™m trying to figure out what the leader would most likely end up doing with her. Is it conceivable they _wouldnā€™t_ commission her and just work with her as an ally? Iā€™m not sure Iā€™m following. Are you saying that she would be clandestinely working against the aims of the group to which she is a spokesperson? Then sheā€™s essentially a spy. Spyā€™s break all sorts of rules while trying not to get caught. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/70 "2025-08-06T22:40:24Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Then sheā€™s essentially a spy. Spyā€™s break all sorts of rules while trying not to get caught. She was originally a spy, yes. She was the famous daughter of a top government official while secretly working for The Front. Then she got in trouble and had to flee the state, ended up taking refuge in the state to which she has allegiance, became more publicly aligned with this burgeoning revolution, and now that sheā€™s been ā€œoutted" they want to use her public persona to further their goals. At this stage the revolutionary military is pretty ad-hoc, and theyā€™re trying to gain credibility on the public stage. The way that resistance movements strategically shape public narratives is a recurring theme in the book. When I say sheā€™d be breaking rules, I mean that sheā€™s not doing great at taking orders from the Front, and as the story progresses she becomes more and more disillusioned with the movement she once blindly followed. Ultimately sheā€™s going to split with them, working with them but on her own terms. Itā€™s just easier if sheā€™s not somewhere in the military hierarchy. She was basically a little side project of the revolutionā€™s founder and did not have a military background or training. She was just young and earnest and uniquely positioned to gather intelligence because of who she was. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2025, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/71 "2025-08-13T20:45:59Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > The Cdn Minister of Militia & Defence, Gen. Sir Sam Hughes, appointed a number of Cdn businessmen Honorary Colonels with instructions to cut red tape and expedite the procurement of urgently needed military supplies. A number of these individuals promptly misused their new positions to enrich themselves at public expense. Well, at least no Honorary Colonel in Canada enriched himself by starting a [Canadian Fried Chicken company](https://rghf.org/the-kentucky-colonel-harlan-sanders-2/#:~:text=Harland%2520Sanders%2520was%2520born%2520in,called%2520him%2520%25E2%2580%259CThe%2520Colonel%25E2%2580%259D.)ā€¦. šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2025, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/72 "2025-08-14T07:14:18Z")
Samuel Colt was made an honorary aide-de-camp to the Lt Governor of the state, and on that basis evrt afterwards styled himself ā€˜Colonel ā€˜ Colt. Heā€™d already been doing that for years anyway without any justification. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2025, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/73 "2025-08-14T09:32:05Z")
The KGB, for instance, was a military service and had military ranks. Kim Philby was a ā€œrealā€ KGB general. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/74 "2025-08-17T20:35:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So this has happened before to non-medical professionals in peace time? And, as far as I know, even those medical professionals went through military training first, so what sort of training did these guys get? What does it matter? They are presumably acting as advisors based on their civilian career experience as CTOs, not commanding a mechanized battalion in combat. Maybe someone can correct me, but itā€™s my understanding that people who join the military directly from civilian life for jobs like surgeons or JAG lawyers go through a bit of a watered down basic training (if at all)? I guess maybe I donā€™t understand why the military would bring them in as commissioned officers as opposed to civilian military contractors. Maybe so they donā€™t have to pay them as much? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/75 "2025-08-17T20:48:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe someone can correct me, but itā€™s my understanding that people who join the military directly from civilian life for jobs like surgeons or JAG lawyers go through a bit of a watered down basic training (if at all)? Officers in general donā€™t go through ā€œbasic trainingā€ in the same way enlisted recruits do. All the stuff you see in movies & TV is all about enlisted training, not officer training. Initial officer training varies by era and by service and by method of entry, but thereā€™s a lot more emphasis on academic learning and leadership and a lot less emphasis on de-civilianizing the trainees. Having said that, compared to standard officer training of the era and service, the medical and JAG programs were/are very short in time and as such very light on all things military other than the bare minimum to navigate the ā€œcompany cultureā€ youā€™re about to be embedded in as a perpetual semi-outsider. > [@msmith537](#): > > I guess maybe I donā€™t understand why the military would bring them in as commissioned officers as opposed to civilian military contractors. The habit of incorporating doctors, lawyers, (and chaplains) into the real military, albeit in a sorta separate way, long predates DoD interest in using military contractors. Hell, it long predates the existence of the DoD. I would not be surprised to see further motion in the direction of military contractors for those roles. But thatā€™s not how we got here, and you can certainly see how self-preservation for everybody under the current system would encourage them to push back against any bureaucratic maneuvers to shrink the e.g. Medical Corps and bring in hired civilians. Congress could wield their mighty budget sword and force it so. But thereā€™d be a lot of screaming and some service auxiliary organizations are quite adept at lobbying. Could happen, but my bet is not. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/76 "2025-08-17T21:25:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I guess maybe I donā€™t understand why the military would bring them in as commissioned officers as opposed to civilian military contractors. Maybe so they donā€™t have to pay them as much? So you can order them to work 18-hour days, work weekends, go to combat zones, risk their lives, and whatever else you want them to do, and if they refuse you can court martial them. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/77 "2025-08-17T21:36:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe someone can correct me, but itā€™s my understanding that people who join the military directly from civilian life for jobs like surgeons or JAG lawyers go through a bit of a watered down basic training (if at all)? My buddy was a JAG in the Air Force and went through basic training in the late 80s. The JAGs went through basic with the Chaplains. He said it was like a camping trip but they did get to shoot rifles. They and the medical doctors still need to pass the same physical fitness standards as the regular officers. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/78 "2025-08-17T22:10:00Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The habit of incorporating doctors, lawyers, (and chaplains) into the real military, albeit in a sorta separate way, long predates DoD interest in using military contractors. Hell, it long predates the existence of the DoD. I was referring specifically to these tech executives. Sorry if I was unclear. Doctors and lawyers etc makes sense as they are long-term jobs embedded within and supporting the military organization. These CTO roles sounded more like the equivalent ofā€¦I donā€™t knowā€¦hiring Accenture or Booz Allen partners to advise the DoD on tech strategy. Unless maybe they are meant to be in long-term CTO type roles within the military. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/79 "2025-08-17T22:49:16Z")
William Wyler was a major and filmed war documentaries. Wyler filmed _The Memphis Belle_ at great personal risk, flying over enemy territory on actual bombing missions in 1943. Just speculation, but the rank would make it easier to do his filming. He didnā€™t have as many obstacles in getting access to planes and bases. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2025, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119/80 "2025-08-17T23:45:40Z")
The rank also afforded the protection of the Geneva Convention, back when it mattered. A non-uniformed professional on a battlefield is eligible to be shot as a spy if captured. If Wylerā€™s plane had been shot down and he were captured, heā€™d have been held in a Luftwaffe POW camp (stalag luft) and given the correct treatment accorded officers in in that treaty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/civvies-gifted-with-real-not-honorary-military-ranks-wtf/1020119.md?page=5)