# Claims of "Ritual Abuse". Whats the reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254 "2013-01-24T20:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Steener122](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Steener122](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steener122)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/1 "2013-01-24T20:25:37Z")
I recently downloaded a book on Kindle (it was free or I wouldn’t have wasted my money) called Rabbithole. It is supposed to be about the horrible Satanic Ritual Abuse that a man went through. By the time I got to the second chapter I was thinking “This can’t be true”. So I looked some stuff up online. I stumbled into a whole debate between the author of that book, another book, some people on Amazon and people on another board who say it doesn’t exist. Let me say now, I don’t buy it, it just seems all too crazy. Kids being killed and their blood drained and drank, the boy was supposed to be “the anti-christ”, a huge portion of the city of Omaha was supposed to be buying and selling kids and its supposed to go “all the way to the White House” (in the 80’s not now). Thats really as far as I got before I looked into it before I started my online search. So I guess my question is this. Why are these people making things like this up? I can’t understand why anyone would want to do that. The man who wrote the book has a blog, and all kinds of stuff. The newest things hes on are that A) The guy who co-founded Reditt was going to expose abuse such as this at MIT and B) The guy in the UK who abused all those people was in a satanic cult. Is there just something wrong with these people? Attention? Do they really think it happened or do they know its all BS? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/2 "2013-01-24T20:31:36Z")
> [@Steener122](#): > > So I guess my question is this. Why are these people making things like this up? Money; attention; mental illness. > [@](#): > > Is there just something wrong with these people? Yes. > [@](#): > > Attention? Yes. > [@](#): > > Do they really think it happened or do they know its all BS? Some of each, I suspect, although I’d wager that a majority of them are somewhere in between, having deliberately convinced themselves that it’s true. Most of us are kind of boring people. You wouldn’t really want to read about my life, unless I were a good enough writer to find the hilarity and poignancy in everyday events. But if you’re at the center of a Satanic conspiracy, suddenly you just got interesting. Some people are willing to sacrifice their integrity and their identity in order to become interesting. ---
**Author:** ![JerrySTL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e274bd/32.png) [@JerrySTL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerrySTL)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/3 "2013-01-24T20:33:11Z")
1. Attention. 2. Get to write books and make money. 3. Law enforcement officials: power. 4. Mental Health professionals: Money and Power. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/4 "2013-01-24T20:35:53Z")
Some were suggestible people who had false memories\* due to hypnosis; the “Satanic abuse” frenzy was heavily interwoven with the “repressed memories of child abuse retrieved by hypnosis” frenzy; no doubt others were crazy without external help. As for why? It got attention seekers attention, it fulfilled the need many Christians have to feel persecuted, I’m sure plenty of people made money off it, and there’s always conspiracy theory crazies out there. \*While last I heard there’s no evidence that repressed memories even exist, there’s plenty of evidence that _false_ memories exist. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/5 "2013-01-24T20:50:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > \*While last I heard there’s no evidence that repressed memories even exist Good grief, I’ve told you about that evidence at least half a dozen times, and each time you claim that you’ve never heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/6 "2013-01-24T20:57:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Good grief, I’ve told you about that evidence at least half a dozen times, and each time you claim that you’ve never heard of it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/7 "2013-01-24T21:02:50Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Some were suggestible people who had false memories\* due to hypnosis; the “Satanic abuse” frenzy was heavily interwoven with the “repressed memories of child abuse retrieved by hypnosis” frenzy; no doubt others were crazy without external help. As for why? It got attention seekers attention, it fulfilled the need many Christians have to feel persecuted, I’m sure plenty of people made money off it, and there’s always conspiracy theory crazies out there. > > \*While last I heard there’s no evidence that repressed memories even exist, there’s plenty of evidence that _false_ memories exist. Pretty much this. THe whole repressed memories thing was complete bullshit and was used to launch a number of witch hunts which ruined a lot of lives in the process, and all from a complete psudo-scientific basis. If anything, memories of abuse aren’t repressed but overly focused on by those who experience it…the memories magnified, not wiped out and repressed. And it’s ridiculously easy to implant false memories that, in the right circumstance become ‘real’ to the person they are being implanted into. This has been shown over and over again. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/8 "2013-01-24T21:10:54Z")
Andrew Vachss’s False Allegations covers this very topic. For the record, Vachss is an attorney who handles children accused of committing sexual abuse, most all of whom have been abused. He knows his topic, and he agrees it’s bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/9 "2013-01-24T21:31:16Z")
If you want a good debunking of the whole Satanic Ritual Abuse scare, I suggest reading Jeffrey S. Victor’s book _Satanic Panic_. It was published in 1993, but you might find it in a good public library. It compares the SRA scare to the Salem Witch Trials. Scary how such a situation could occur in modern times. I remember when this panic happened. Geraldo Rivera had some idiot speaking in silhouette behind a screen swearing up and down that Satanists were infiltrating day care centers for supplies of sacrificial victims and making money by filming child porn. Letterman had Oprah on his show and since she was doing her own programs about it, he asked her sarcastically, “…if this craze is sweeping the country?” Oprah fell back on the old saw about “If only one child is saved, it would be worth it.” Letterman clammed up immediately. I can only say, “Well Oprah, not a single child was saved, and a lot of innocent people went to jail. So no, it wasn’t worth it.” I remember reading, and I don’t know if it was in Victor’s book, that part of the cause that drove the panic was a public expression of the guilt of working mothers, leaving their kids in day care instead of being stay at home moms. It was an interesting theory. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/10 "2013-01-24T22:19:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Good grief, I’ve told you about that evidence at least half a dozen times, and each time you claim that you’ve never heard of it. You win the thread. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/11 "2013-01-24T22:23:04Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > You win the thread. Congratulations. Yeah-It was funny the last six times he posted that, too. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Steener122](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Steener122](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steener122)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/12 "2013-01-24T22:34:09Z")
> [@Two\_Many\_Cats](#): > > If you want a good debunking of the whole Satanic Ritual Abuse scare, I suggest reading Jeffrey S. Victor’s book _Satanic Panic_. It was published in 1993, but you might find it in a good public library. It compares the SRA scare to the Salem Witch Trials. Scary how such a situation could occur in modern times. > > I remember when this panic happened. Geraldo Rivera had some idiot speaking in silhouette behind a screen swearing up and down that Satanists were infiltrating day care centers for supplies of sacrificial victims and making money by filming child porn. > > Letterman had Oprah on his show and since she was doing her own programs about it, he asked her sarcastically, “…if this craze is sweeping the country?” Oprah fell back on the old saw about “If only one child is saved, it would be worth it.” Letterman clammed up immediately. > > I can only say, “Well Oprah, not a single child was saved, and a lot of innocent people went to jail. So no, it wasn’t worth it.” > > I remember reading, and I don’t know if it was in Victor’s book, that part of the cause that drove the panic was a public expression of the guilt of working mothers, leaving their kids in day care instead of being stay at home moms. It was an interesting theory. Oooh. Sounds like a trip to the library may be in order. I’ve yet to try to read the rest of “Rabbit Hole” although I’ve read more of him fighting with reviewers of his book to don’t totally love it. I guess if I really want to know about it though I’ll have to suck it up and read it, then go find this book you’ve told me about. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/13 "2013-01-25T00:06:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Some were suggestible people who had false memories\* due to hypnosis; the “Satanic abuse” frenzy was heavily interwoven with the “repressed memories of child abuse retrieved by hypnosis” frenzy; no doubt others were crazy without external help. As for why? It got attention seekers attention, it fulfilled the need many Christians have to feel persecuted, I’m sure plenty of people made money off it, and there’s always conspiracy theory crazies out there. > > \*While last I heard there’s no evidence that repressed memories even exist, there’s plenty of evidence that _false_ memories exist. Also, IMO that also reflects an element of carryover from the Cult scare injected into the Satanic Ritual Abuse scare. IIRC as “Deprogramming” started to become discredited, “Recovered Memory” became a more mainstream big thing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/14 "2013-01-25T00:44:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah-It was funny the last six times he posted that, too. :rolleyes: Gosh, I thought that was the first time, but now your post is making me remember…didn’t I post it before? Yeah, I think I did. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/15 "2013-01-25T01:27:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah-It was funny the last six times he posted that, too. :rolleyes: That’s not how I remember it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/16 "2013-01-25T01:31:51Z")
The [Satanic Ritual Abuse scare](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse) was not spontaneous – fundies actually pushed it, through pious fraud when necessary: > [@](#): > > **Promotion and fraud** > > The panic was promoted heavily by Christian fundamentalists, particularly author Mike Warnke and his fraudulent “autobiography” _The Satan Seller,_ Rebecca Brown and her equally fraudulent _He Came To Set the Captives Free,_ Lauren Stratford and her gory (and fraudulent) book _Satan’s Underground,_ radio talk show host Bob Larson, book writer Hal Lindsey, and comic writer Jack Chick. An early book that gave impetus to the spread of this myth was _Michelle Remembers_ by Michelle Smith in 1980. This book was proven to be a hoax (noticing a pattern?), but the widespread belief continued in multigenerational Satanic cults ritually abusing children. John Todd and Lauren Stratford also claimed to have been born into such multigenerational Satanist families, with Stratford claiming particularly horrific abuse, but both their testimonies were also found to be complete fabrications. The spread of the hoax continued into the 1990s with two Bob Larson novels, _Dead Air_ and _Abaddon,_ which were at least published as fiction but nonetheless tapped into the popularity of this belief among evangelical Christians. > > **False memories** > > The ritual abuse movement was intimately linked to recovered memory and multiple personality, two borderline theories within psychology. Significantly, almost no alleged SRA survivors remembered they had been abused until the intervention of therapists, concerned parents, or police interrogators. This eventually led psychologists to understand that the memories of abuse were being created, not recovered, by therapists. One woman remembered abuse happening to her before she was one year old though memories from before the age of three are rare and memories from before the age of one are are unknown. [1] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/17 "2013-01-25T01:36:59Z")
[See also:](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satanic_Panic#Stereotypical_characteristics_of_Satanists_and_Satanism) > [@](#): > > **Stereotypical characteristics of Satanists and Satanism** > > Evangelicals and the police and prosecutors that they influence usually believe that the network(s) of Satan worshipers are characterized by the following: > > - There are families of devil worshippers, and they tend to be multigenerational. > - Teenagers are enticed to join Satanic cults. > - Human sacrifice. > - Disappearing pets are used for animal sacrifice. > - Ritual child abuse. > - Satanist networks are part of a broader conspiracy, e.g. the Illuminati. > - Wiccans and other neopagans are Satanic in nature. > - Wiccan symbols such as the pentagram are signs of Satanic activity. Some Christian books on Satanism (and materials provided to law enforcement) included the peace symbol and the anarchy symbol in their lists of “Satanic symbols” to watch out for. Warning! There are pentagrams in the American flag and in the EU flag. > - Some parts of popular culture are functioning as recruiting tools for Satanism, including heavy metal music and the game Dungeons and Dragons. > - Halloween is a Satanic holiday; urban legends and scares over poisoned candy were claimed to be the work of Satanic cults. > - Some towns, agencies, or even major corporations (i.e. Procter & Gamble) are secretly under the control of Satanists. > - Satanist “infiltration” of the military. > - Washington, D.C. is infested with Satanic symbols designed into the city. > - Atheists are _really_ satanists. ---
**Author:** ![Hottius\_Maximus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ab097/32.png) [@Hottius\_Maximus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hottius_Maximus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/18 "2013-01-25T01:56:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The [Satanic Ritual Abuse scare](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse) was not spontaneous – fundies actually pushed it, through pious fraud when necessary: The actual title of Pazder’s book should have been called “Michelle Remembers BULLSHIT!” As for Rebecca Brown “M.D.” I recall seeing that harpy on Geraldo spouting her nonsense. Since I had read her first book, it was obvious to me that Geraldo had NOT! If he had (or if I myself had been in that audience when that episode was taped) then this fake “doctor” would have been confronted over all the BULL that she propagated! As for the woman in silhouette behind the screen, that was “Elaine” who was allegedly the “high priestess and bride of Satan” who met with the Pope (she never mentions which one) as well as many heads of state. If you follow the actual story, “Dr.” Rebecca Brown was very abusive to “Elaine” and her mentally handicapped daughter. Elaine herself died not too many years ago. One thing I do wonder about: it appears that the McMartin Pre School Trial should NEVER have occurred. Did any of the McMartin family or school administrators or teachers ever sue the prosecutors and accusers for defamation of character? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/19 "2013-01-25T14:32:29Z")
Weird thing about Warnke jumping on the Ritual Abuse bandwagon- Not one word about it in his autobiography THE SATAN SELLER. So he was not a primary source for any SRA stories, but boy once the wagon got rolling, he hopped right on. One of my dubious-prized possessions is an autographed copy of TSS I had him sign about a decade before he was exposed. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254/20 "2013-01-25T18:01:26Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > One thing I do wonder about: it appears that the McMartin Pre School Trial should NEVER have occurred. Note that prosecutors in Boston were still [fighting](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Amirault) to keep the Amiraults in prison as recently as the late '90s and early 2000s. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claims-of-ritual-abuse-whats-the-reason/648254.md?page=2)