# Claire Beauchamp, the culturally literate snob **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 31, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905 "2009-07-31T19:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/41 "2009-07-31T20:54:13Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > For their acting? šŸ™‚ šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/42 "2009-07-31T20:54:29Z")
After reading the linked thread, I was actually ready to get on board with a **smiling bandit** rantā€¦ until the _Bridge Over the River Kwai_ bit. Watch (or rather, listen to) [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83bmsluWHZc) and then tell me you think itā€™s obscure. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/43 "2009-07-31T20:59:56Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Look, if we were talking about ā€œOh my god, you philistine! You havenā€™t seen _Last Year at Marienbad_?!ā€, you might have more of a point there. _Bridge Over the River Kwai_ is a movie about a badass British army guy, a badass Japanese army guy, and a badass American army guy. There is a prison camp escape and a scene where they get the special effects by throwing a real train off a real bridge. Itā€™s hardly a film with no popular appeal. So what? Not knowing it hardly makes one blindingly culturally illiterate. Quick, without Googling, what Division 1 NCAA Menā€™s basketball coach has the record for most lifetime victories? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/44 "2009-07-31T21:02:23Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > So what? Not knowing it hardly makes one blindingly culturally illiterate. > > Quick, without Googling, what Division 1 NCAA Menā€™s basketball coach has the record for most lifetime victories? Shit if I know. I also donā€™t know much about Broadway musicals except the famous ones. I havenā€™t really seen all that many plays, either. My knowledge of modern poetry is woeful, as is my knowledge of the past eighty years or so of art music. I never claimed to be an authority, but if you want to be able to say you know anything about film, you do indeed have to watch movies made before you were born, thatā€™s all. And yes, if you donā€™t have _any knowledge of the movie at all_, Iā€™d say either you have a weird gap in your experience or that you are kind of culturally illiterate. Iā€™d at least expect you to know the song, know that itā€™s a WWII prison camp movie, and to know that Alec Guinness was in it. ETA - I was trying to think if I could name a basketball coach at all - was Bear Bryant a basketball coach? If so, thatā€™s better than I expected. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/45 "2009-07-31T21:02:26Z")
Who is Alec Guinness? Is he that guy from 30 Rock? ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/46 "2009-07-31T21:04:11Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > For their acting? šŸ™‚ I donā€™t know why, but Iā€™ve known the names Sarah Bernhardt and Lillie Langtry since childhood ā€“ and Iā€™m not _that_ old. ETA: > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Who is Alec Guinness? Is he that guy from 30 Rock? Smart alec. ---
**Author:** ![Labdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/439d5e/32.png) [@Labdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labdad)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/47 "2009-07-31T21:04:16Z")
This is probably just going to throw gas on the fire, but Alec Guiness defined the role of John LeCarreā€™s spy George Smiley. It was one of his greatest performances EVER! ā€œTinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spyā€ came out in 1979, and ā€œSmileyā€™s Peopleā€ came out in 1982. Both of those performances were AFTER ā€œStar Wars!ā€ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/48 "2009-07-31T21:04:22Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Yes, in the sense that Marlon Brando would now be an obscure actor if he hadnā€™t been in _Superman_. Oh, you know, that was _good_. I got quite a chuckle out of that. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/49 "2009-07-31T21:06:37Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Ms Beauchamp (pronounced ā€œBeechumā€?) was a bit too snootyā€¦ Sigh. Itā€™s Bow-_shaump_, light on the ā€œpā€. Donā€™t you know your French, you cultural illiterate? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/50 "2009-07-31T21:07:08Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > The Ealing comedies, while fantastic, are somewhat more obscure, Iā€™ll grant you that. Although _The Ladykillers_ was recently remade by the Coen Brothers with Tom Hanks, if thatā€™s any indication. Maybe they were banking on our cultural illiteracy, expecting we would fail to notice that _their_ version was (peering through my culturally literarily snobbishly ivory lorgnettes) _decidely inferior_ Of course, you know Guinness only took the role of obi-wan so he could buy up all the negatives from the gay pornos he made in the 30ā€™s (OK, not true, but if he didnā€™t have a better reason to accept the part, I wish heā€™d have turned it down and let it go to Donald Pleasance, who was a much better sport about these things) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/51 "2009-07-31T21:07:08Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Quick, without Googling, what Division 1 NCAA Menā€™s basketball coach has the record for most lifetime victories? While I may not know the answer to that question, I know who Bobby Knight is when the name comes up. Thatā€™s like asking, ā€œWhere does _Bridge over the River Kwai_ stand on the all-time list of top-grossing movies?ā€ For the purposes of this thread, they are irrelevant questions. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/52 "2009-07-31T21:08:07Z")
Dude, if he hadnā€™t taken the role people like the OP might have absolutely no idea of who he was. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/53 "2009-07-31T21:08:18Z")
Iā€™ve seen _Bridge on the River Kwai_ numerous times and greatly enjoyed it but is it just me or was Alec Guinnessā€™ performance nothing special. He just kind of played along with the other characters and even did an overexaggerated ā€œOMG!! Itā€™s so hot in there!! I feel soā€¦ soā€¦ faintā€¦ā€. Maybe he had other roles where he was brilliant but that one surely didnā€™t stand out. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/54 "2009-07-31T21:08:19Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Shit if I know. I also donā€™t know much about Broadway musicals except the famous ones. I havenā€™t really seen all that many plays, either. My knowledge of modern poetry is woeful, as is my knowledge of the past eighty years or so of art music. I never claimed to be an authority, but if you want to be able to say you know anything about film, you do indeed have to watch movies made before you were born, thatā€™s all. That is not what \*\*Claire \*\*said. It wasnā€™t about anyone claiming any authority about movies. > [@](#): > > And yes, if you donā€™t have _any knowledge of the movie at all_, Iā€™d say either you have a weird gap in your experience or that you are kind of culturally illiterate. Then by your own admission, you would have to be culturally illiterate as well, right? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/55 "2009-07-31T21:08:56Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > ETA - I was trying to think if I could name a basketball coach at all - was Bear Bryant a basketball coach? If so, thatā€™s better than I expected. šŸ™‚ Philistine. :mad: Football. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/56 "2009-07-31T21:09:42Z")
I think youā€™d have a hard time finding somebody who honestly thinks ā€œa big part of culture todayā€ and ā€œculturally literateā€ are using the same definition of the word ā€œculture.ā€ But you obviously know that, so I didnā€™t think there was any point in saying it. ETA - whoops, my mom is going to be disappointed in me. I did, at least, name a coach of some game played with a ball on the college level, so thereā€™s that. šŸ™‚ Oh, wait, thereā€™s also that guy at Duke with the Polish name that starts with K and is pronounced sheshevsky, right? That has to be basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/57 "2009-07-31T21:11:53Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > While I may not know the answer to that question, I know who Bobby Knight is when the name comes up. > > Thatā€™s like asking, ā€œWhere does _Bridge over the River Kwai_ stand on the all-time list of top-grossing movies?ā€ For the purposes of this thread, they are irrelevant questions. Then pick another question. How about ā€œWhat college coach was instrumental in the introduction of the shot clock?ā€ My main point is that sports is as much a part of popular culture as movies are, and that many folks who could quote chapter and verse WRT Alec Guinness movies know piss-all about sports. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/58 "2009-07-31T21:13:10Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > Hereā€™s a thought experiment for the stuck-up elitists here abouts. Can anyone deny that sports is huge part of our culture? I mean tremendously, staggeringly, blindingly huge? > > Does not knowing who won the NCAA Menā€™s Basketball Championship last year, or the names of the last three Super Bowl MVPS, make someone culturally illiterate? Hereā€™s a clue. There is more to culture than movies. Much much more. Depends on whether you define ā€œculture,ā€ in the sense of ā€œcultural literacy,ā€ to include sports (and I think a case could be made either way). If it does, then yes, that would make someone culturally illiterate. If no, then theyā€™d be some other kind of illiterate. And by these standards, if you want to call me ā€œilliterateā€ (or ignorant), Iā€™ll cheerfully accept the label. Itā€™s not an ignorance that particularly bothers me, but neither am I proud of it; and for the most part Iā€™ll humbly keep my mouth shut in discussions of football or basketball. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/59 "2009-07-31T21:13:26Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I think youā€™d have a hard time finding somebody who honestly thinks ā€œa big part of culture todayā€ and ā€œculturally literateā€ are using the same definition of the word ā€œculture.ā€ But you obviously know that, so I didnā€™t think there was any point in saying it. If by ā€œtodayā€ you mean ā€œthe past eighty years.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905/60 "2009-07-31T21:15:15Z")
OP is weakly executed, but good in theory. Letā€™s look at the original quote: > [@Artists who hate their biggest hit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-hate-their-biggest-hit/504874/8): > > > [@Artists who hate their biggest hit](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/artists-who-hate-their-biggest-hit/504874/6): > > > > Alec Guinness couldnā€™t stand his role as Obi-Wan Kenobi (and I canā€™t blame him, given that he was a renowned stage actor of the highest caliber who is now best-remembered as that one role.) > > **correction:** ā€¦ who is now best-remembered _by cultural illiterates_ as that one role. For many people born in the 70s and 80s, their first exposure to Sir Alec Guinness was his role in _Star Wars_. Often times, our first impression of an actor sticks - he did a fine enough job to be iconic as Obi-Wan Kenobi, so folks (such as myself) will always best remember him for that role despite having seen him in other films. Does that make one ā€œculturally illiterateā€? No, it just means a strong first impression can stick. Also: fuck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/claire-beauchamp-the-culturally-literate-snob/504905.md?page=4)