# Clarence Thomas secretly accepted luxury vacations from GOP donor without disclosing **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 6, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252 "2023-04-06T14:10:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/283 "2023-05-08T17:19:01Z")
Sure I get that. Ideally, Roberts will apply the ethical rules for all federal judges to the SCOTUS as well. But he cannot right now. It would look like he is yielding to political and media pressure. I would bet a lot of money that if Harlan Crow were never born, Thomas still votes with the majority in Dobbs. It is a worrying habit that he consistently neglected to report gifts from this one benefactor, almost as if he knew he was taking too much. But corruption seems like a powerfully loaded word to attach to a failure to report gifts that were ethically permissible. The title refers to Harlan Crow as GOP donor but I think that the more relevant descriptor is that he is Thomas’ friend. This would be like characterizing travel and accommodations by the ACLU and the Federalist society as being from partisan organizations that have business before the court. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/284 "2023-05-08T17:26:34Z")
Not recusing himself in cases where there’s even the appearance of a conflict of interest is problem enough. I’d speculate that the majority of judges who recuse themselves do NOT do so because they don’t think they could adjudicate impartially. Rather, it’s because they understand that even the appearance of possible impropriety undermines the legitimacy of the case’s outcome, specifically, and the court itself, more generally. This is textbook, standard stuff for judges, and the majority of them have no trouble coloring inside the lines. Atamasama already hit the nail on the head—we may never know definitively whether or not there was some quid pro quo. And that’s the point. Ethical judges eliminate that speculation. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/285 "2023-05-08T17:34:28Z")
> Someday, and that day may never come, I will call upon you to do a service for me. –“The Godfather” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/286 "2023-05-08T17:41:45Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t think it’s ever going to be possible to say definitively what specific decisions were influenced, but nobody has to do that. That’s why conflict of interest laws don’t address it. I’m a government employee myself, I have had extensive training in trying to avoid a COI situation, and one thing that we are taught is that you don’t accept gifts because it can even influence you subconsciously. And even if it doesn’t influence you, it’s critical to avoid the **appearance** of impropriety. Why? Because it damages the confidence that people have in government. This, exactly. Thomas may well have not ever voted any differently on any case that was before the Court if he’d never even met Harlan Crow, but **we don’t know** , and the fact that a conservative benefactor, who has a history of financially supporting a number of conservative causes, has been materially supporting Thomas and his family for decades absolutely makes it **appear** that Thomas is, in some way, indebted/beholden to Crow, and brings doubt to Americans’ minds. The fact that the entire Court – both the liberals and the conservatives – seems to have circled the wagons on this issue, and all of them appear to be uninterested in (if not actively opposed to) any examination or changes, should be alarming to us all. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/287 "2023-05-08T17:55:57Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I agree that ethics reform should occur. But not under political and media pressure like this. There’s pressure because it’s so stupifyingly obvious that it needs to be done, the sooner the better. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/288 "2023-05-08T18:13:21Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > And what official action or opinion do you think Thomas took that was influenced by these gifts? It seems like it would be impossible for us to know how Thomas worked behind the scenes to get other Justices to get on his side. They don’t work in 9 individual bubbles, but spend time trying to get other Justices on board. The corruption doesn’t have to just be official actions. And, we have no way of knowing whether the direction of a case was leaked to Crow. Knowing that Dobbs or Citizens United or whatever looked like it was going to swing one way or another is valuable information that Thomas (or his wife) could have leaked to Crow. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/289 "2023-05-08T18:22:25Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I agree that ethics reform should occur. But not under political and media pressure like this. This is a ridiculous statement. A SCOTUS justice is getting hundreds of thousands in unreported gifts from a wealthy conservative. Are you seriously suggesting that there won’t be political and media pressure at some point while this is occurring? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/290 "2023-05-08T18:38:53Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > The title refers to Harlan Crow as GOP donor but I think that the more relevant descriptor is that he is Thomas’ friend. Well - when and why did they become “friends”? I suspect both of these persons view relationships as rather transactional, rather than sincere, open friendships. > [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t think it’s ever going to be possible to say definitively what specific decisions were influenced, but nobody has to do that. I’ve long ago stopped paying too close attention to political corruption cases, and I’m not sure if I’m mis-remembering a case here in Chicago, Illinois, or the federal government. But I recall corruption prosecutions failing due to the absence of a specific quid pro quo. Sure, donor x gave politician y all manner of gifts and favors. And politician y supported all manner of policies directly favoring donor x. But on no occasion did donor x say, “If I give you this specific amount of money, will you take that specific action for me in return?” Nor did the politician say, “I’ll sell you my vote on this issue for $z.” Of course any realistic person realizes corruption is rarely so neatly delineated. But on at least one occasion I recall not too long ago, what seemed extremely clearly to be a corrupt relationship was insufficient to obtain a conviction. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/291 "2023-05-08T18:39:53Z")
So should Sotomayor recuse herself any time the ACLU files an amicus brief? She accepts travel and accommodations from them. I don’t think she should recuse herself, do you? Here is a letter signed by every justice explaining their current practice. Failure to disclose a gift from a friend that does not have any business before the court does not seem like grounds for legislating or impeaching or anything like that. It seems like a reason to amend disclosure. > **[Letter%20to%20Chairman%20Durbin%2004.25.2023.pdf](https://www.judiciary.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Letter%20to%20Chairman%20Durbin%2004.25.2023.pdf)** > > 319.69 KB The failure to recuse on the January 6th stuff where his wife’s name comes up is troubling. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/292 "2023-05-08T18:43:44Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’ve long ago stopped paying too close attention to political corruption cases, and I’m not sure if I’m mis-remembering a case here in Chicago, Illinois, or the federal government. But I recall corruption prosecutions failing due to the absence of a specific quid pro quo. Sure, donor x gave politician y all manner of gifts and favors. And politician y supported all manner of policies directly favoring donor x. But on no occasion did donor x say, “If I give you this specific amount of money, will you take that specific action for me in return?” Nor did the politician say, “I’ll sell you my vote on this issue for $z.” For being charged with the crime of corruption that might very well be true. But this isn’t about a criminal prosecution of Thomas (as far as I know), it’s about the suitability of serving on the Supreme Court, or at least facing some kind of consequence for what he has been doing (and not doing). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/293 "2023-05-08T18:47:12Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > a friend that does not have any business before the court He’s a staunch conservative ideologue and big time donor to the GOP. He openly and obviously wants GOP favored policies and court decisions, and spends lots of money to achieve them. Just about every political case that comes before the court is his business. He chooses to make it so. The appearance here is very improper. That’s what is important when it comes to court legitimacy. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/294 "2023-05-08T18:50:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, first, I should say I have been friends with Harlan Crow for about 20 years. I find him a wonderful man. He’s hosted me at his home in Dallas and in New York. So, reader — viewers should know that that’s my connection to Harlan. > > And so that’s disclosure. And that’s what I wish Clarence Thomas had done in this case. –New York Time columnist, David Brooks [mic drop] ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/295 "2023-05-08T18:51:10Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > For being charged with the crime of corruption that might very well be true. But this isn’t about a criminal prosecution of Thomas (as far as I know), it’s about the suitability of serving on the Supreme Court, or at least facing some kind of consequence for what he has been doing (and not doing). Here in Chicago/Illinois, many elected offices are considered “part-time”, with employment allowed in areas which appear to be blatant conflicts. Seems like many of them are lawyers who run side hustles representing people seeking variances, etc. Just boggles the mind that it is even argued as legitimate. And what about a spouse’s actions/income? Should acceptance of a government position - elected or otherwise - entail a vow of (relative) poverty? Should a spouse’s position restrict the other spouse’s employment options? I have pretty strong opinions, but I acknowledge there can be room for argument. But CT has just vaulted over any reasonable line. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/296 "2023-05-08T18:55:55Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > who has a history of financially supporting a number of conservative causes, has been materially supporting Thomas and his family for decades > [@needscoffee](#): > > There’s pressure because it’s so stupifyingly obvious that it needs to be done, the sooner the better. And this has been known for decades. It is only now becoming an issue. I think there is an obvious reason for that. But I think the solution is to win more elections not to undermine the legitimacy of the court by bombarding it with accusations of corruption. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > The fact that the entire Court – both the liberals and the conservatives – seems to have circled the wagons on this issue, and all of them appear to be uninterested in (if not actively opposed to) any examination or changes, should be alarming to us all. And the fact that this whole thing is focused on Thomas makes it seem like this is a partisan issue and I think we should be careful about politicizing the court. > [@RitterSport](#): > > The corruption doesn’t have to just be official actions. Some people are making accusations of corruption based on this type of speculation and I think it weakens democracy to feed into that. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a ridiculous statement. A SCOTUS justice is getting hundreds of thousands in unreported gifts from a wealthy conservative. Are you seriously suggesting that there won’t be political and media pressure at some point while this is occurring? This has been occurring for decades. It is only becoming an issue now because of recent events having nothing to do with Harlan Crow or the lavish gifts. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Well - when and why did they become “friends”? I suspect both of these persons view relationships as rather transactional, rather than sincere, open friendships. The vast majority of the gifts in question is the value of Harlan taking the Thomases on vacation with him or extending his hospitality. His vacations are really expensive and only very wealthy friends can go with him unless he pays for them. I have paid for vacations for friends and family because I knew it would be a financial burden for them to go to the sort of places I want to spend my vacation. > [@Airbeck](#): > > He’s a staunch conservative ideologue and big time donor to the GOP. He openly and obviously wants GOP favored policies and court decisions And Thomas isn’t a staunch conservative? I don’t think all the money in the world could make him more conservative. I think he has buried the needle in that respect. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > I have pretty strong opinions, but I acknowledge there can be room for argument. But CT has just vaulted over any reasonable line. I think there is room for argument what constitutes a reasonable line in this case. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/297 "2023-05-08T18:58:34Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Failure to disclose a gift from a friend that does not have any business before the court does not seem like grounds for legislating Well, no. BECAUSE IT’S ALREADY THE LAW. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/298 "2023-05-08T18:58:38Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > This has been occurring for decades. It is only becoming an issue now because of recent events having nothing to do with Harlan Crow or the lavish gifts. It’s becoming an issue now because it’s only being publicly reported now. Were you under the impression that all of this has been known for years? ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/299 "2023-05-08T19:00:45Z")
I agree. I think the failure to disclose is unfortunate but not impeachable or a basis for a rush to legislate a breach of the separation of power. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/300 "2023-05-08T19:01:27Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > And Thomas isn’t a staunch conservative? I don’t think all the money in the world could make him more conservative. I think he has buried the needle in that respect. Well Supreme Court Justices aren’t supposed to just rule based on their personal ideology. It’s supposed to be 9 people dispassionately ruling based on the constitution. What you just said here doesn’t help with the court legitimacy issue at all. It’s like you’ve forgotten what the entire point of being a judge is. Hint, it isn’t supposed to be a political job. If a judge only rules based on partisanship and not the law, then they should not be a judge anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/301 "2023-05-08T19:03:39Z")
Each branch is empowered to check the other branches. That is what checks and balances are all about, right? I learned this stuff from cartoons on Saturday mornings when I was a kid. Have we all forgotten about this concept? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252/302 "2023-05-08T19:07:23Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > And this has been known for decades. Has it? It’s only within the past few weeks that the press has uncovered and reported on a lot of what Crow has been giving to Thomas, at least in part because, after the [Los Angeles Times raised some questions about Thomas and a couple of gifts in 2004](https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2023-04-06/the-times-reported-about-justice-thomas-gifts-20-years-ago-after-he-just-stopped-disclosing-them), Thomas appears to have simply stopped reporting such gifts. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > I think we should be careful about politicizing the court. That ship has _sailed_, and conservatives are a large part of the reason why. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > The vast majority of the gifts in question is the value of Harlan taking the Thomases on vacation with him or extending his hospitality. …and [purchased Thomas’s mother’s home](https://www.propublica.org/article/clarence-thomas-harlan-crow-real-estate-scotus), then paid for improvements to that home, and apparently allowing her to continue to live in it, rent-free. …[and paid for several years of private school tuition](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/billionaire-harlan-crow-paid-school-tuition-justice-thomas/story?id=99072736) for Thomas’s grandnephew, which Thomas claims he had no need to declare, because it was not for one of his direct dependents (despite the fact that Thomas has said that he is raising the grandnephew as his own son). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarence-thomas-secretly-accepted-luxury-vacations-from-gop-donor-without-disclosing/982252.md?page=16)