# ...clarification about a warning \[Rescinded, Mod mistake\] **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 5, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263 "2020-12-05T03:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/1 "2020-12-05T03:50:11Z")
> [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/43): > > …its okay not to understand what Elliot’s statement actually meant. But to double down on this in this thread is really starting to get embarrassing. > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/43): > > > > Despite what’s been claimed in this thread, that is more than zero evidence that Page now identifies as a man. > > I’ve conceded that Page may (or may not) identify as a trans man. I’ve stated that Page hasn’t identified as a trans man and its presumptuous to make that assumption. You can be non-binary and prefer “he” or “she” or “they” or “he/they” and none of these are incorrect. > > What there is zero evidence for in this thread is that **this matters** in the relationship between Page and Portner. Because that was your original point, was it not? > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/43): > > > > Finally despite what’s been claimed in this thread, there is more than zero evidence that a marriage between somebody who is openly a lesbian and somebody who is **openly a man** is a marriage that is going to have some strain on it. > > Page hasn’t identified themselves as a man. Lesbian is a label you have chosen for Portner and may (or may not be) the right label Portner would use for herself right now. There is zero evidence that there is strain on the marriage and it is distasteful to even speculate about it in a thread that should be a celebration. > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/44): > > > > Because there are some people in this thread **who are claiming to be certain of things they have no reason to be certain about.** > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/22): > > > > You don’t feel the fact that she married a woman is evidence she wants to be married to a woman? > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/23): > > > > I feel it’s dismissive to somebody’s sexual orientation to claim that they can just change it if needed. > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/22): > > > > You can support somebody’s right to exist and be identified as a man without wanting to be married to a man. > > > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/27): > > > > Elliot Page is a man. > > Are you talking about yourself? > [@Ellen Page is trans/nonbinary now, name is Elliot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ellen-page-is-trans-nonbinary-now-name-is-elliot/926940/167): > > **Modhat** : We had a mod note to remain civil in the Café. We’ve had a poster warned in this thread. Banquet\_Bear you are acting like a jerk toward Little\_Nemo in this thread. > > This is an **Official Warning** for you. You will receive the email shortly. You are also instructed to stay out of this thread for now on. …can you explain what part of this post (that was in response to a poster who was continually and willfully mis-gendering a public figure) that was posted **before** the mod note was posted, crossed what line? How exactly was it jerkish? And while I’m here: based on past rulings by the Straight Dope staff (deliberately) misgendering somebody isn’t considered inherently jerkish. Can we get that revisited? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/2 "2020-12-05T04:47:31Z")
I have to agree, I did a search on the thread, and @Banquet_Bear did not make any other posts to @Little_Nemo after the mod note–a mod note that seemed to apply to both posters, as @Little_Nemo was being just as hateful. The Warning in question specifically claims that the problematic behavior happened after the Mod Note, and heavily implies it happened after @urbanredneck2’s Warning. Yet that appears to be factually inaccurate. The post being quoted as the one that was the last straw resulting in the Warning was made before the Mod Note. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/3 "2020-12-05T05:14:18Z")
I was notified of this thread apparently because my name was in it. I was not aware I had come across as hateful in that thread. This was not my intent. I disagreed with some of the things that were said but I did not intend to convey hate towards anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/4 "2020-12-05T08:52:26Z")
**puzzlegal** issued the note, **Chronos** issued **urbanredneck** ’s warning, and **What\_Exit** issued **Banquet\_Bear** ’s warning. With 177 posts and a different moderator behind each action it may well have been a mistake. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/5 "2020-12-05T11:36:04Z")
This has been a running theme with this particular mod. He also gave me a warning (or “note” as he put it) for defending myself against someone also saying transphobic things. Don’t expect anything to be done about it. I’m at the point where I just try to stay away from any threads dealing with transgender/non-binary issues now (as much as I love that Elliot Page has become a part of our community), because what’s the point if someone can repeatedly misgender me and vilify trans/enby people and I can’t do anything about it. I’ve just come to accept that this forum is trash when it comes to us, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change anytime soon… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/6 "2020-12-05T13:20:36Z")
I’m going to double check my work. It sounds like I screwed up. BRB * * * I see your post was #47. I screwed up and thought it came after the Note & Warning. I am very sorry and will undo the warning and restriction. Mea Culpa, Jim * * * **Warning has been removed from the system. And again, I am sorry.** ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/7 "2020-12-05T15:09:10Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > He also gave me a warning (or “note” as he put it) for defending myself against someone also saying transphobic things If you are taking about thread in ATMB that was closed, that wasn’t a warning; it was a Note. Nothing on your permanent record. He realized the thread was getting a bit out of hand, said he realized you were responding to posts, but there’s nothing to rescind for a Note. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/8 "2020-12-05T15:20:04Z")
I didn’t care about if it was or wasn’t on my permanent record, that wasn’t my point. My point was that when transpeople or our allies defend ourselves, we tend to be the ones who get a talking to while they get a pass. It’s the pattern of one-sided moderation against us. It’s why I feel the moderators here never have our interests in mind and would rather us just go away so we stop making trouble by pointing out bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/9 "2020-12-05T15:35:51Z")
We definitely don’t want you to go away! Just report instead of responding in thread. I wanted to clarify that since you said it was a warning- well, it wasn’t. He called it a note because that’s what it was. Notes are often just reminders of the rules, not punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/10 "2020-12-05T16:04:55Z")
Thank you for clarifying, but I didn’t need anything clarified. It has nothing to do with the larger issues on this board that I’ve been talking about and subsequently been ignored. I feel like the mods here always try to change the subject, as you did. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/11 "2020-12-05T16:19:35Z")
Even when I brought this up personally with What\_Exit, and how I don’t want to stay around here if things don’t change, his response was “Ok sorry, goodbye and good luck.” No desire from him to change things, just if you don’t like it, bye. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/12 "2020-12-05T17:56:18Z")
That is not fair and out of context. You message to me implied you were done with the place. I thought you were flouncing. {I’m glad you didn’t.} We are trying to change things. It will probably be at a slower pace than you want. But we are trying. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/13 "2020-12-05T19:45:04Z")
Even if they were “flouncing”, an appropriate response given the circumstances would have been “No, don’t go, We’ll do better.” Not effectively “Cheers, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/14 "2020-12-05T20:15:09Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > **Warning has been removed from the system. And again, I am sorry.** …no need for the sorry, and thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/15 "2020-12-05T21:01:27Z")
There was more to it than that. It was a series of messages back and forth. You’re making guesses at what happened. Can you possibly fathom it might not be so cut and dry? I have been trying, but clearly not enough. I’ve got people on all sides of the debate angry at me, so that’s fun. Woo Hoo. > [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …no need for the sorry, and thank you 🙂 Very cool. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/16 "2020-12-05T21:15:40Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’ve got people on all sides of the debate angry at me, so that’s fun. Woo Hoo. That’s a mod rite of passage, I think. You’ve spent a lot of time in ATMB which suggests to me that you actually care and are willing to listen, FWIW. I know how hard it can be to feel personally about an issue but not have other moderators on board. This issue specifically came up for me as an example. I advocated as well as I could within the limits placed upon me. But I figured it was better for there to be one trans ally in the bunch rather than zero. (I don’t actually know how many of the mods at the time considered themselves trans allies, I just remembered a “how is this not hate speech?” conversation where I met resistance.) It’s not even contentious issues where this happens. I would get PMs “so and so is an obvious troll and should be banned” but we only banned people by moderator consensus so if other mods weren’t on board there’s not a whole hell of a lot I could do. Yet it was always personalized like I was singlehandedly to blame for not banning that guy. I say this without resentment. It was just an annoying part of the job. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/17 "2020-12-06T05:52:44Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > There was more to it than that. I’m responding specifically to just what you said in your own post - how you responded to a poster you perceived as “flouncing” (your choice of wording, not mine). FTR, I think you’re a wonderful addition to the mod pool, and am certainly more than happy that you have space to make mistakes. I just think when you _do_ make them, they should be pointed out. My post wasn’t a pitting of you, just a criticism of that particular action. I am not angry at all. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-about-a-warning-rescinded-mod-mistake/927263/18 "2020-12-07T19:31:58Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > It’s not even contentious issues where this happens. I would get PMs “so and so is an obvious troll and should be banned” but we only banned people by moderator consensus so if other mods weren’t on board there’s not a whole hell of a lot I could do. Yet it was always personalized like I was singlehandedly to blame for not banning that guy. It seems to me that this is part due to the inability to specify that this is what occurs. Since the mods have this apparent policy of presenting a single face on these issues, it always appears like the mod that actually says something is speaking for themselves and the mods. As far as I can understand, you can’t say “I agree this is hate speech, but the other mods won’t get on board. I’ll keep trying to get them to take the issue seriously.” Basically, since each mod acts at times like the public face for the mods in general, sometimes negative feelings towards the mods gets personalized to the spokesperson. For the record, I never had any problem with you as a mod, and think that @What_Exit is also an excellent mod. I think they’ve made some mistakes in wording, but have done a good job in listening. (And if you wonder why I’ve not replied in the trans thread, there are two reasons: the first is that I’ve noticed in the past that my overinvolvement often seems to hijack ATMB threads and result in nothing being done. The second is that my past history has shown that, when I speak up for things like this, I often get hateful replies, and I have enough on my plate with real life issues to not want to deal with that. For both of thest reasons, as long as it seems I have other people fighting the fight, I’m more willing to take a backseat. And if you want to see my position on what counts as transphobia, see the Troll Pit thread and my recent comment on that subject. There I didn’t have to worry about breaking any rules.)