# Clarification of rule against hate speech **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [May 18, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634 "2022-05-18T19:43:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/41 "2022-05-19T01:36:39Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Which has resulted in one of the most monochromatic forums of this size. Is there a form we fill out giving our gender/sex, preferred pronouns and race? I don’t think most people have identified their race. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/42 "2022-05-19T01:50:13Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/43 "2022-05-19T02:00:01Z")
**Max\_S** , what clarity would you like me to provide? You raised an interesting question in your OP. A lively debate ensued. You made some posts others regarded as racist and evidently you got pitted for it. We didn’t mod you that I can see. We also didn’t mod people for pitting you. Do you think this was unfair? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/44 "2022-05-19T02:25:23Z")
I don’t _want_ to be sanctioned, but it’s not clear to me whether the same behavior would get me sanctioned for hate speech under your new guidance. Specifically when you write, > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > We recognize there are differences of opinion on what constitutes racist speech. We leave it to the SDMB community to debate such questions. Once the community - or even mods - decides a post is in fact racist speech, it is not clear if mods will step in and sanction it as _hate speech_. I ask because a) this is something that has been asked for repeatedly and with some justification, and b) if the mods will step in going forward, I’ll refrain from such sensitive debates rather than risk being warned. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/45 "2022-05-19T02:38:46Z")
If you’re asking whether we’re going to take a vote among SDMB users before we mod someone, the answer is no. If you’re asking whether the staff tries to arrive at an internal consensus on difficult cases, the answer is yes, that’s our standard practice. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/46 "2022-05-19T02:47:35Z")
The core question is whether racism itself is considered hate speech, even when no pejorative remarks or factual claims are made - such as questions about my own identity, or of my own morals. I don’t consider myself a racist, but I know some of my opinions go right up to the line. I can avoid slurs and disparaging remarks and still state my positions. But if racism itself is against the rules, I would rather just keep my mouth shut than risk being warned. I understand that you don’t like working in hypotheticals, so I provided an actual example. But now I fear there will not be a straight answer. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/47 "2022-05-19T04:00:48Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The core question is whether racism itself is considered hate speech, even when no pejorative remarks or factual claims are made - such as questions about my own identity, or of my own morals. There’s ignorant racism, and aggressive racism. I can’t see the former as hate speech, but the latter certainly is. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/48 "2022-05-19T06:06:54Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > So until this post, someone making potshots at white people wouldn’t have been modded? I’ve been modded for this, when not using any slurs. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I will take it further than **Max** and say that the way this reads to me is that racism is allowable so long as it is civilized. That’s how I read it, too. For instance, this would make scientific racism debates allowable again: > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > Criticism of minorities on factual grounds is not considered hate speech and is not a violation of SMDB rules, provided it is clearly framed as a debatable proposition. > [@BigT](#): > > This slight change to the status quo does not seem to address this concern at all. My feeling exactly. > [@Grrr](#): > > I think intelligent people should be able to debate things the pushes our comfort zones and questions our sensibilities. _Debating_ the inferiority of me and mine is a nice privilege to have, I’m sure. > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > We have always modded hate speech I can point to at least one Mod who explicitly, openly did not. This is a nice myth, but no, you have not always modded it. And that leaves open the question of what does constitute hate speech. > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > The SDMB community has shown itself to be well equipped to identify defective logic, inadequate evidence, unfounded assumptions, and so on But has shown itself to be _very_ bad at identifying what’s racist. FFS, I once had to point out that a username contained a racist slur. And I got a _mound_ of uphill for it. > [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > If you see what you consider to be racist speech on this board and you believe our response is inadequate, by all means point it out. The response to Cartooniverse’s racist speech was inadequate. This has _already_ been pointed out. What is the response going to be? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/49 "2022-05-19T06:50:39Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I didn’t read **Grrr** ’s post as implying that you would be less intelligent for being uninterested in sensitive debates. Just that an intelligent person should be able to, but might be less interested in doing so. FWIW, I read it as saying that people who don’t want to, say, debate the inherent humanity of their own group, are just not as interested in intelligent debate as the racists who do. Or, in other words, racists are the real intellectuals here and the minorities who object to that are here merely to stir shit up by exposing their hurt feelings as a way of shutting debate down for those intellectuals. “Too sensitive” is just a step away from “snowflake”, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/50 "2022-05-19T11:36:23Z")
never mind, saw that part I skimmed over that referenced scientific racism ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/51 "2022-05-19T14:14:11Z")
From the remarks so far it’s evident some people feel the restated rules are reasonably clear, some think they go too far, some think they don’t go far enough, and some aren’t sure. We’ll just have to see. To repeat, if you see what you consider instances of hate speech or unambiguous racism on this board and you feel the staff’s response is inadequate, please bring the matter to our attention and we’ll go from there. Having done what we can do for now, I’m closing this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-rule-against-hate-speech/964634/52 "2022-05-19T14:14:16Z")
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