# Clarification of the purpose of ATMB and closing threads **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 18, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222 "2015-01-18T22:18:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/1 "2015-01-18T22:18:45Z")
I thought one of the purposes of ATMB was for discussion of moderator actions. So, why have the last two threads that discuss moderator actions been summarily closed? I understand that some of the posts arguably crossed the line, but why not a mod note or a warning and then keep the thread open? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/2 "2015-01-18T22:24:13Z")
They didn’t “arguably cross the line,” the OPs themselves were outright abusive. The well had already been poisoned. ATMB is for _civil_ discussion of moderator actions, not for abuse. If you want to make a complaint, do it in a civil fashion. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/3 "2015-01-18T22:59:47Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > They didn’t “arguably cross the line,” the OPs themselves were outright abusive. The well had already been poisoned. ATMB is for _civil_ discussion of moderator actions, not for abuse. If you want to make a complaint, do it in a civil fashion. But the follow up conversation was civil. Why don’t you all just mod note or warn an OP if you perceive the comment to be abusive and let the discussion continue? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2015, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/4 "2015-01-18T23:49:01Z")
ATMB is the place to politely discuss moderator actions. It is not the place for people to bitch about how much they hate particular members of the moderation staff. Frank’s post was confrontational, insulting, and impolite right from the start. The thread began as a train wreck and wasn’t getting any better with subsequent comments. Oliveritaly’s post was similarly confrontational, insulting, and impolite right from the start. If you want to discuss the moderation of the SDMB in ATMB, those are two really good examples of how not to do it. If you want to discuss a particular moderation issue, then politely discuss the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/5 "2015-01-19T16:24:56Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I thought one of the purposes of ATMB was for discussion of moderator actions. Oh, you can discuss. But they’ll be damned if they actually listen to the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/6 "2015-01-19T18:21:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If you want to make a complaint, do it in a civil fashion. Oh, please. Should I cite the threads you have locked before any discussion of moderator action can even happen? Granted, I don’t have a problem with the locking of **Frank’s** thread, it was _way_ too personal, but… But damnit **Collibri** , you are well known, and even vilified, for how you handled the last frou frou among mods rearding the Game Room. I think it would be wiser for you, as a mod, to take a step back. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/7 "2015-01-19T18:43:54Z")
How is **CK Dexter Haven** doing in his retirement, by the way? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/8 "2015-01-19T19:49:14Z")
If you want to politely discuss moderator actions, use ATMB. If you want to bitch about moderators in general, use the Pit. If you want to bitch about moderator actions, you don’t get to. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/9 "2015-01-19T20:09:52Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If you want to politely discuss moderator actions, use ATMB. > > If you want to bitch about moderators in general, use the Pit. > > If you want to bitch about moderator actions, you don’t get to. Heh, only the last line is correct. You cannot bitch about moderator actions in The Pit. You can politely ask questions about moderation in as polite a tone as you’d ask your pastor a question, and you might get an answer depending on what day of the week it is and people’s moods. There’s essentially no way to discuss bad moderation here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/10 "2015-01-19T20:20:22Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If you want to politely discuss moderator actions, use ATMB. > > If you want to bitch about moderators in general, use the Pit. > > If you want to bitch about moderator actions, you don’t get to. So what you’re saying is that… The first rule of bitching about moderator actions is that you don’t bitch about moderator actions? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/11 "2015-01-19T21:18:40Z")
I’d think the argument could be made that one is allowed to bitch about moderator actions in ATMB. It just comes down to how it’s done. If it’s abusive, pit-style language; then no, it probably will be modded or shut down. …But regular bitching, without name calling or insulting would be okay. Compare: “That mod is so fucking stupid, they couldn’t even find their own ass if they had a map. How the fuck does this idiot keep their position?” with “That call that was made was complete bullshit. How in the hell did that poster break any rules? That was a serious error in judgement and that mod was so wrong.” The first is not okay, the second (even though some may define it as “bitching”) would be. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/12 "2015-01-19T22:04:34Z")
No, the second gets your thread closed and labeled ‘abusive’. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/13 "2015-01-19T22:39:39Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > No, the second gets your thread closed and labeled ‘abusive’. Exactly. The description of ATMB on the front page should read: > [@](#): > > ATMB is the place to discuss moderator actions. The moderators themselves will generally ignore your complaints, or stonewall them with platitudes and excuses, until one or more members step over the line and break the rules. The moderators will then, instead of warning the rulebreakers, use the violations as a convenient excuse to close the thread. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/14 "2015-01-19T22:40:19Z")
> [@Idle Thoughts](#): > > I’d think the argument could be made that one is allowed to bitch about moderator actions in ATMB. It just comes down to how it’s done. > If it’s abusive, pit-style language; then no, it probably will be modded or shut down. …But regular bitching, without name calling or insulting would be okay. > > Compare: > “That mod is so fucking stupid, they couldn’t even find their own ass if they had a map. How the fuck does this idiot keep their position?” > > with > > “That call that was made was complete bullshit. How in the hell did that poster break any rules? That was a serious error in judgement and that mod was so wrong.” > > The first is not okay, the second (even though some may define it as “bitching”) would be. **Idle Toughts** , I had a thread locked and received a warning for this: > [@armedmonkey](#): > > [It’s been] over three months since my last question on this topic. Every time a poster complains about post padding “games” in the Game Room it gets locked because it’s “still under discussion”. Three months this has been happening. Ents reach a decision faster than that. > > I’ve reached the point where when a mod tell me something is “under discussion” I read it as the mod trying to kill all discussion. Three months and seven or eight threads. Posters can’t discuss how useless these threads are, because complaining about them gets locked, and I don’t believe for a minute that there is any meaningful discussion among the mods. > > So consider this a protest. I hate the goddamn post padding threads, and I hate how the discussion is always being killed. Now, where is the name calling? Where is the insult? Where is the abusive language? It sure as hell is bitching, I admit that, but I was warned for “violating moderator instructions”. I wasn’t warned for an insult or language, I was warned because I posted on a subject. That’s a serious error in judgement and **Collibri** was wrong to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/15 "2015-01-19T23:07:23Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > No, the second gets your thread closed and labeled ‘abusive’. Well, then that’s funny, because I’ve seen ATMB topics before that have been complaining about mod actions, yet stay open. > [@armedmonkey](#): > > **Idle Toughts** , I had a thread locked and received a warning for this: > > Now, where is the name calling? Where is the insult? Where is the abusive language? It sure as hell is bitching, I admit that, but I was warned for “violating moderator instructions”. I wasn’t warned for an insult or language, I was warned because I posted on a subject. That’s a serious error in judgement and **Collibri** was wrong to do that. You were warned because everyone had been told (many times) to not start any more threads, not because of complaining or insults. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/16 "2015-01-19T23:25:54Z")
Here’s what we need: A regularly recurring “Friday mods-stay-away-day”. Every Friday (perhaps for just a designated six- or twelve-hour period) the mods all go out for beer or whatever and the rest of us get to have a mod-free session. No moderation at all during the “happy hours”! Of course, junior modding by the hoi polloi will run rampant along with all manner of other board violations, there being no real mods to deal with it. (Not that anyone actually has to pay attention to one another’s junior modding, of course.) So for just one free-wheeling uninhibited session per week, the whole Board’s a Pit! (It will be just like the weekly Festival on that old Star Trek episode.) ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/17 "2015-01-19T23:35:03Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > You were warned because everyone had been told (many times) to not start any more threads, not because of complaining or insults. Cite? Seriously. Show me where there was an official instruction posted on the board not to talk about the rule changes in the Game Room. I don’t think you can, but even if you do, I want you to justify why we couldn’t talk about the said rule changes. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2015, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/18 "2015-01-19T23:46:50Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Cite? Seriously. Show me where there was an official instruction posted on the board not to talk about the rule changes in the Game Room. I don’t think you can, but even if you do, I want you to justify why we couldn’t talk about the said rule changes. [Here’s one.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17785686&postcount=146) (“Please sit tight”) [Here’s two.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17788964&postcount=10) (“please let the topic lie without starting any new ATMB threads pro or con.”) [And here was three… told to you specifically before it happened.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17848384&postcount=29) (“You had said in a previous PM to me that you would continue to open threads in ATMB about this subject, **contrary to moderator instructions** …” “That would be abuse of the purpose of ATMB, and would justify a warning.”) (bolding mine) Three times posters were told not to make any new topics, and one of them was to you specifically… so…I’m not really sure why you’re surprised you got a warning when you did it. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/19 "2015-01-20T00:03:00Z")
Again, I want you to justify why posters couldn’t talk about it. Maybe, and here’s a thought, you should have been more like [Ed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=744556) and leave complaints about the subject open. Did **Ed** issue a warning to **Absolute**? No, he didn’t, and that was well after my thread. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2015, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222/20 "2015-01-20T00:11:29Z")
Because it had already been talked about, across three topics, and didn’t show any signs of slowing down or coming to a resolve. With every solution offered, there was always a group of posters unhappy with it and arguing against it. So we closed them all and asked nobody to make any more topics about it for the time being as we were going to discuss it. Now you may not agree with that reasoning or think the reasoning is stupid or useless or nonsensical or whathaveyou…but the point remains that the mods told everyone not to make any new topics. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-of-the-purpose-of-atmb-and-closing-threads/710222.md?page=2)