# Clarification request, re: Rules about changing text within quote tags **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [March 28, 2014, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746 "2014-03-28T08:51:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/81 "2014-03-28T17:57:10Z")
I was never confused about this rule until today. Twickster’s comments which have never been mentioned by any other mod including herself when the subject came up previously contradict everything I thought I understood. In the thread Czarcasm linked to earlier, three mods including Twickster weighed in with identical interpretations of the rule which is that you can put anything you want inside of quotation marks - even if it is a deliberate misrepresentation of something another poster wrote, but that you can never, ever, alter the text within a quotebox even if it is an obvious parody or meant only in jest. > [@Re-writing someone's post - against the rules?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-writing-someones-post-against-the-rules/590685/3): > > **cochrane** has the right of it. So long as you’re not doing it within a quote box, you’re okay. > [@Re-writing someone's post - against the rules?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-writing-someones-post-against-the-rules/590685/7): > > Modifying in what way? If you’re editing to remove extraneous material – e.g., you only need one paragraph of a seven-paragraph post – that’s already legal. If you’re editing to change the intent or significance of what was said, you shouldn’t used a quote box. > [@Re-writing someone's post - against the rules?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/re-writing-someones-post-against-the-rules/590685/10): > > The problem with using the quote box, with or without attribution, is that is gives the appearance that the quote was taken from some post _verbatim_ by the software. This would be misleading for modified quotes. > Italics, CODE boxes, offsets and indentations, quotation marks, and other techniques do not give such an immediate perception that the quote is a direct copy. It is not that any form is utterly free of confusion, but keeping the QUOTE boxes sacrosanct for unmodified quotes imposes a certain consistency of application that provides a level of expectation for any reader at any time. In this more [recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=697180) a poster was upset that their words were misreprestented inside of quotation marks. While no mod ever answered them, other posters advised them that this was allowed because it was not done inside of a quote box. Colibri closed the thread because it was getting adversarial but indicated, indirectly at least. that the correct answer had been given to the OP. Since the thread has been closed it is a hassle to take quotes from it, but I will put the pertinent remarks inside generic quote boxes, unaltered. > [@](#): > > Poster mischaracterizing your posts > Is it okay for another poster to deceptively and intentionally misrepresent another person’s posts? Repeatedly? > [@](#): > > Altering your posts inside a quote box is not allowed, but creating a strawman argument by paraphrasing your post in a less than accurate way is a common debating style for certain posters. You can pit, ignore, or call them out on it. > [@](#): > > "Wow I can see why she seldom actually quotes people. I guess I figured it would somehow be against the rules or something if it was so blatant and constant, like how she almost permeates that thread with it. > > But it’s good to know what’s the deal. I’ll handle it by doing one of the things you suggest. Thanks. > [@](#): > > Since the question seems to have been answered to the OP’s satisfaction, I’m going to close this. I don’t have time to find them all now, but I know there have been many other threads that echoed this one basic rule - never edit the text inside a quote box, do whatever you want inside quotation marks, italics, etc. But today Twickster has completely contradicted what I thought I had understood so clearly (even from her own previous comments on the subject) > [@twickster](#): > > As a current moderator, I consider anything treated as a quote to be a quote – I make no distinction between quotation mark and a quote box. Quotes is quotes. > [@twickster](#): > > First, where does it say that material quoted with quotation marks is handled differently than material in a quote box? Unattributed parodies _are_ treated differently, but attributed quotes, however presented, should not be tampered with. This is the first and only time I have ever understood a mod to be saying that it is not permitted to do whatever you want with someone’s quote inside of quotation marks or other means of quoting besides quote boxes (italics, etc.). Even when posters have opened up ATMB threads specifically to complain that their words were changed inside quotation marks by another poster, they were told that is permitted as long as they didn’t use a quote box. So it would be nice if a PTB could clarify as I think this new interpretation of the rule is broken quite regularly around here if it is valid. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/82 "2014-03-28T18:12:51Z")
> [@Peaton\_of\_peat](#): > > 100% in agreement with bldysabba here, it seems like the point of the rule is to prevent arguing in bad faith, because I seriously can’t imagine any other purpose to the rule other than some fetishistic devotion to the rules for their own sake. I believe the board management is applying well-known journalistic rules (well-known to journalists, at least) and you will find it’s actually a liability issue. AFAIK, posts on the SDMB become the property of the Chicago Reader. If someone is misquoted, and if that misquote were involved in litigation in which the original poster could show that the quote was intended to show them in a bad light, the Chicago Reader, as host of the defamatory material, then could be deemed liable. The policy of “no alteration of quoted material by the moderators” apparently derives from the same reasoning. More info on the subject: > **[What Are the Risks of Misquoting an Interviewee?](http://www.rightsofwriters.com/2011/01/what-are-risks-of-misquoting.html)** > > "Quotation, n: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another." (Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary ) Unless a writer tape reco... Relevant para: > [@](#): > > But beware of the man who claims that he has been misquoted in a way that makes him look bad – unprofessional, bigoted, ignorant, malevolent, crooked, violent – whereas an accurate quotation would have made him look like the upstanding citizen he believes himself to be. And be aware that (inaccurately) putting words into your interviewee’s mouth that diminish his reputation and expose him to “hatred, contempt, or aversion” can, in fact, be actionable. While the existing rule is indeed worded in such a way that it is not entirely clear whether material in quote tags can be modified or not, the liability issue described above indicates that as a matter of prudence, material within quote tags indeed should not be modified from the original, whether a poster’s name is attached or not. I’m not going to claim that the particular instance being discussed here might result, on its own, in exposure of the site owner to liability, but the potential is there, hence the need for a consistent rule on the issue. IANAL. I invite correction from anyone who actually knows what they are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/83 "2014-03-28T18:17:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Would it be possible to get a final ruling as to what can and cannot be done within quote tags, then have the official rules changed to reflect that, if need be? Too late. Tuba apparently only posts once in any particular thread, and the opportunity to grumble “keep it down in here!” trumps any sort of administrative clarification she might be able to provide. Seriously, Tuba. One or two sentences of clarification WOULD keep it down in here, and prevent what is now likely to be three more pages of bickering. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/84 "2014-03-28T18:18:35Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Too late. Tuba apparently only posts once in any particular thread, and the opportunity to grumble “keep it down in here!” trumps any sort of administrative clarification she might be able to provide. Is that a direct quote? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/85 "2014-03-28T18:21:06Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Too late. Tuba apparently only posts once in any particular thread, and the opportunity to grumble “keep it down in here!” trumps any sort of administrative clarification she might be able to provide. > > Seriously, Tuba. One or two sentences of clarification WOULD keep it down in here, and prevent what is now likely to be three more pages of bickering. To be fair, it probably is being discussed behind the scenes even as we post. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/86 "2014-03-28T18:30:55Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I believe the board management is applying well-known journalistic rules (well-known to journalists, at least) and you will find it’s actually a liability issue. This is more or less the reason for the rule in the first place - some years back, a person altered a quote inside a quote box, and the person who was misquoted threatened to sue the SDMB/Chicago Reader. As for the specifics of this issue, it’s being discussed currently, and we’ll have an answer for you as soon as we have one for ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/87 "2014-03-28T18:36:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Only to those who don’t think there should be one. I would like to think that there is a way to keep at least one avenue of quotation free from fudgery. This. Because of the rule, we can take it for granted that when something’s in a quote box, it’s the quoted text, period. That’s a feature, not a bug. And in the current situation, when the quoter is addressing the quoted person in his/her post (“fixed that for you”), then leaving that person’s name off the quote box is a pretty slim fig leaf to base a “see, nothing wrong here” claim on. My six year old manages more sophisticated rule evasions than that. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/88 "2014-03-28T18:36:55Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > And second, the only “other mod” who has posted in this thread is **Czarcasm** , who is not currently a moderator. Can’t keep track without a scorecard, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/89 "2014-03-28T18:39:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is more or less the reason for the rule in the first place - some years back, a person altered a quote inside a quote box, and the person who was misquoted threatened to sue the SDMB/Chicago Reader. > > As for the specifics of this issue, it’s being discussed currently, and we’ll have an answer for you as soon as we have one for ourselves. [Intermission!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP6TxSH_pSM) ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/90 "2014-03-28T18:59:53Z")
> [@](#): > > One has to wonder exactly which part of an unattributed quote box is sacrosanct if it’s not actually a quote from anyone. Is inventing text out of thin air considered a “modification” to that very text? Indeed, Czarcasm. Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/91 "2014-03-28T19:07:47Z")
> [@spinky](#): > > Indeed, Czarcasm. Indeed. Answers coming any time now. [While we wait…](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hmDZz5pDOQ) ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/92 "2014-03-28T19:09:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, putant scribentur omittantur ei. Eam graeci mandamus democritum ei, his laudem admodum inimicus ex. Ne iudico quando delicata mei, his ad suas intellegam. Ut hinc adipiscing nec. Et lorem nonumes constituto, est id verear torquatos. > [@spinky](#): > > Indeed, Czarcasm. Indeed. Reported ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/93 "2014-03-28T19:13:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > [Intermission!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP6TxSH_pSM) [\*Let’s all go to the lobby, let’s all go to the lobby…](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html)\* ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/94 "2014-03-28T19:59:03Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > First, where does it say that material quoted with quotation marks is handled differently than material in a quote box? Unattributed parodies _are_ treated differently, but attributed quotes, however presented, should not be tampered with. You’re wrong on this. It’s been long established. [Miller](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14076821&postcount=3): > [@](#): > > cochrane has the right of it. So long as you’re not doing it within a quote box, you’re okay. ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/95 "2014-03-28T20:23:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > This is more or less the reason for the rule in the first place - some years back, a person altered a quote inside a quote box, and the person who was misquoted threatened to sue the SDMB/Chicago Reader. > > As for the specifics of this issue, it’s being discussed currently, and we’ll have an answer for you as soon as we have one for ourselves. But in a case like this, where the quote hasn’t been attributed to anyone, how can that be an issue? Also, if someone were to sue, is it possible that text being inside quote marks instead of the quote box could matter? I suppose that is GQ, but I would be very interested in knowing the answer, if any of our law experts would care to weigh in. RNATB? Bricker? ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/96 "2014-03-28T20:25:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > My opinion is that the route **magellan** took, which opened up this can of worms, was totally unnecessary because he could have accomplished the same thing without using quote tags at all. Unnecessary and warning worthy offence are not quite equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/97 "2014-03-28T20:35:15Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > But in a case like this, where the quote hasn’t been attributed to anyone, how can that be an issue? Also, if someone were to sue, is it possible that text being inside quote marks instead of the quote box could matter? I suppose that is GQ, but I would be very interested in knowing the answer, if any of our law experts would care to weigh in. RNATB? Bricker? At this point, I think the only law experts they are probably listening to are their own, which is all to the good. While we await their decision, [please enjoy this Superbowl Halftime Show.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34FZpKDgLtA) ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/98 "2014-03-28T20:37:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > At this point, I think the only law experts they are probably listening to are their own, which is all to the good. > > While we await their decision, [please enjoy this Superbowl Halftime Show.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34FZpKDgLtA) I don’t care about getting them legal advice. I’m just curious. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/99 "2014-03-28T20:41:21Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I don’t care about getting them legal advice. I’m just curious. It’s a video featuring Keyboard Cat during the Puppy Bowl X Halftime Show. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746/100 "2014-03-28T23:30:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s a video featuring Keyboard Cat during the Puppy Bowl X Halftime Show. It would be nice if you’d stop posting off-topic nonsense to the thread while we wait to hear a ruling. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-request-re-rules-about-changing-text-within-quote-tags/684746.md?page=6)