# Clarification, Tom? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [August 11, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184 "2012-08-11T11:18:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/1 "2012-08-11T11:18:38Z")
**Tomndebb** says [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15356972&postcount=68) that more than two requests for a cite constitutes harassment of another poster. I always thought that, absent personal abuse (which isn’t present here, though I haven’t read the entire thread carefully), that persistently repeating a request for a cite was polite, civil good form here on the SD, no matter how often repeated. If there’s a new rule about this, I’d sure like to hear it articulated. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/2 "2012-08-11T12:27:12Z")
Without commenting on this modding, at times I think it is necessary to pursue a somewhat contentious claim. If a poster said the moon is green and a cite is asked for, some posters have a habit of ignoring the question as they can’t support the claim. So, IMHO, asking for a cite more than twice may not be harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/3 "2012-08-11T12:47:20Z")
Used to be you’d have to think twice before spouting BS because you knew you’d get some well-deserved flack for it. So there are no repercussions for making baseless claims in GD now? ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/4 "2012-08-11T13:31:25Z")
What I don’t understand is how someone can keep spewing the same BS over and over again without providing a cite and not be called a troll. _My post is my cite_ can’t fly here. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/5 "2012-08-11T13:50:07Z")
In my opinion once a poster has ignored two requests for a cite to back up his assertions it’s pretty clear that he won’t or more probably can’t respond however many times you rinse and repeat. Simply draw attention to the fact and move on, it will already be quite evident to all that his argument is a busted flush. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/6 "2012-08-11T13:55:03Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > In my opinion once a poster has ignored two requests for a cite to back up his assertions it’s pretty clear that he won’t or more probably can’t respond however many times you rinse and repeat. Simply draw attention to the fact and move on, it will already be quite evident to all that his argument is a busted flush. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work. I’m not saying repeatedly asking for a cite works either, but I think if you don’t have that possibility it may encourage posters to just ignore such requests. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/7 "2012-08-11T15:19:11Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > **Tomndebb** says [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15356972&postcount=68) that more than two requests for a cite constitutes harassment of another poster. Three requests. But what’s one request +/- among friends? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/8 "2012-08-11T15:47:09Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > _My post is my cite_ can’t fly here. [Where do you think it _comes_ from?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/member.php) I have to agree with **tomndebb** here, although I understand the frustration. If someone makes a claim and can’t or won’t produce a cite, asking over and over and over doesn’t accomplish anything other than derailing the thread. Ask, say, two times and let the failure to produce a cite speak for itself or say “I see you still can’t come up with that cite” and let it go. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/9 "2012-08-11T15:51:42Z")
Is this a rule? You should post it as a GD rule if it is. My opinion is that it’s among your stupidest rules, but you should clarify it if it is a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/10 "2012-08-11T15:53:11Z")
There is no rule against asking the same question a particular number of times. There is a rule against harrassment. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/11 "2012-08-11T15:57:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There is no rule against asking the same question a particular number of times. There is a rule against harrassment. bravo. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/12 "2012-08-11T16:22:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > There is no rule against asking the same question a particular number of times. There is a rule against harrassment. This is like “There is no speed limit. There is a rule against pissing off a cop, especially if he’s behind in his quota for tickets.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/13 "2012-08-11T16:28:54Z")
I can’t stop you if you want to reinterpret this in the most negative light, but if that’s the case there’s also not much point in discussing the issue with you. There is no new rule here, and I think **tomndebb** ’s moderation was entirely sensible. **Ibn Warraq** asked for a cite several times and **greenslime1951** refused to provide one. What was the point of making the request a fourth, eighth, and tenth time? It had already been established that no cite was forthcoming, so **tomndebb** told the posters to move on. All he did here was point out the obvious: posters don’t have to respond to questions and asking the same thing over and over is pointless and serves only to hijack the thread, but pointing out that poster has not substantiated his argument is fair game. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/14 "2012-08-11T16:40:12Z")
I just read the thread and thought **Tomndebb** handled it well. He told **Ibn Warraq** to knock off the repetitive (and fruitless) demands for a retraction; Mr. Warraq said okay and then provided [a devastating, informative rebuttal](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15358240&postcount=78) of **Greenslime** ’s careless contentions. It made the thread ever so much better. And the OP needs to abandon his obsession with having all possible SDMB rules violations written out in exacting, unambiguous language. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/15 "2012-08-11T18:56:15Z")
Is it o.k. to repeat the request if the person in question repeats or reiterates the claim? if a poster has a habit of making the same baseless claim over and over again, is asking for a cite and pointing out that the poster has previously ignore requests for cites allowed? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/16 "2012-08-11T18:57:15Z")
It simple seems reasonable to set a number on how many times you may ask for a cite before being accused of harassment, or else to state forthrightly that you can ask for a unlimited number of cites without being accused of harassment. If someone does something other than ask for a cite, then specify what you may do and may not do, to be considered harassing. If I’m extremely polite, and I phrase it “Please, if it’s not troubling you too much, I have asked for a cite, and haven’t gotten one, from you times now, and I’d appreciate your supplying me with one–I don’t want to assume you simply don’t have one, but I’m afraid that is the conclusion I will eventually reach, as well as a lower view of your integrity, if I do not get the cite I asked for. I thank you in advance. Peace out,” or some such, can I avoid charges of harassment indefinitely? Or is three and I’m harassing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/17 "2012-08-11T18:58:13Z")
In general, yes, all of that is fine. **tomndebb** made this point in the post quoted in the OP: > [@Jared Diamond responds to Romney's misrepresentation of "Guns, Germs, and Steel"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-diamond-responds-to-romneys-misrepresentation-of-guns-germs-and-steel/630473/68): > > No one is compelled to respond to another poster’s questions. greenslime is correct that if you have asked a question three times with no answer, the person questioned is likely not going to do so at subsequent requests. > > Persistent badgering for an answer is harrassment and it will stop. > > On the other hand, it is also true that a poster who makes an assertion that he or she refuses to support may be simply ducking the fact that the idea has no support and other posters are free to point out that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/18 "2012-08-11T18:59:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In general, yes, all of that is fine. **tomndebb** made this point in the post quoted in the OP: Thank you. Clear enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/19 "2012-08-11T19:12:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In general, yes, all of that is fine. **tomndebb** made this point in the post quoted in the OP: Better, but I’d still like to know what part of the post that **Tom** felt was harassing. It seems like a plain-vanilla repeated request for a cite to me. Maybe he should have made it plain that he was posting outside of his capacity as a Mod? Just “purely in my capacity as a poster here, I’ve found that three or more requests for a cite don’t help you get what you want–it’s kinda a waste of our energy to keep reading these futile requests” sort of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184/20 "2012-08-11T19:28:48Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Better, but I’d still like to know what part of the post that **Tom** felt was harassing. It seems like a plain-vanilla repeated request for a cite to me. The issue was the repeated question, not the wording or some part of the post: > [@Jared Diamond responds to Romney's misrepresentation of "Guns, Germs, and Steel"](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/jared-diamond-responds-to-romneys-misrepresentation-of-guns-germs-and-steel/630473/68): > > Persistent badgering for an answer is harrassment and it will stop. > [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Maybe he should have made it plain that he was posting outside of his capacity as a Mod? He was moderating the thread. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-tom/631184.md?page=2)