# Clarify Thomas the Tank Engine for me, please. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 26, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685 "2005-08-26T03:25:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/1 "2005-08-26T03:25:25Z")
I spent much of the summer watching **Thomas the Tank Engine** videos with my little girl, but I’m confused by 2 things: 1. Do the engines need drivers and firemen to function? In some episodes, the engines refuse to slow down or follow other orders from their drivers, yet in other episodes they don’t seem to be able to those exact same things without a driver. 2. Are the engines really alive in the context of the show? Sir Toppemhat and the other railroaders seem to have a pretty casual attitude toward scrapping them, if so. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/2 "2005-08-26T03:41:17Z")
As the father of a 5 year old Thomas & all things train nut: It varies from episode to episode. Usually they don’t need humans to function, especially when combined with the Shiney time station. Sir Toppemhat is a bit of a prig. He regularly talks to these sentient childlike train beings but then treats them like simple pieces of rolling stock at other times. He also somehow ignores the maniacal tendencies of many of the diesels. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/3 "2005-08-26T08:16:42Z")
I wouldn’t look to deeply into this - my brother and I never had any problem with these apparent inconsistencies reading the books all those years ago … nor were we at all troubled by the fact that the main human character was called ‘The Fat Controller’ - he was portly and he was in charge of organizing the place, Sir Toppemhat indeed ! Hurumph ! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/4 "2005-08-26T09:07:02Z")
Couple things: 1. That’s “Sir Topham Hatt”. 2. There is no “Shining Time Station”. **LAA LAA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!** The Fat Controller isn’t that inhumane really. He runs the Sodor Railway almost entirely on steam despite the economic indefensibility of such a stand, and he has several times given under-performing engines chances to better themselves (such as shelling out for expensive Welsh coal for Henry the Green Engine, prior to his refitting with a new firebox). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/5 "2005-08-26T15:27:05Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > 1. There is no “Shining Time Station”. **LAA LAA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!!** So George Carlin never narrated Thomas stories, then? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/6 "2005-08-26T15:38:56Z")
So they’re alive? Or sentient, at least? Doesn’t that make their relationship with Sir Topham Hatt one of slavery? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/7 "2005-08-26T15:44:09Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > So George Carlin never narrated Thomas stories, then? Ringo Starr was the first in US at least. Its what brought them to my attention. > [@Scumpup](#): > > So they’re alive? Or sentient, at least? Doesn’t that make their relationship with Sir Topham Hatt one of slavery? Could look at that way, but will the first true AI Computer be a citizen or a possession? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/8 "2005-08-26T16:18:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > So they’re alive? Or sentient, at least? Doesn’t that make their relationship with Sir Topham Hatt one of slavery? Certainly not. Almost every engine is motivated by a genuine desire to work. Even the trouble they get into is the result of trying to do harder work than they can handle. They are on the Island of Sodor voluntarily, working because they enjoy it. No slavery there. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/9 "2005-08-26T16:42:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Certainly not. > > They are on the Island of Sodor voluntarily, working because they enjoy it. No slavery there. Cite? The only episode I can recall seeing wherein a new engine was introduced was **Duck Takes Charge.** Duck was to help Percy with shunting because the work was “too heavy for him.” It seemed pretty clear in that episode that Duck was purchased, not recruited. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/10 "2005-08-26T17:12:26Z")
> [@jrfranchi](#): > > Ringo Starr was the first in US at least. Its what brought them to my attention. And Ringo was replaced by he of the seven dirty words. Said it was fun playing against type. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/11 "2005-08-26T18:41:45Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Cite? The only episode I can recall seeing wherein a new engine was introduced was **Duck Takes Charge.** Duck was to help Percy with shunting because the work was “too heavy for him.” It seemed pretty clear in that episode that Duck was purchased, not recruited. Cite for the proposition that the engines all wish to be Really Useful? That’s so common a thread in the series that I can’t believe you’re asking for a cite. All of the fact cards that come with Thomas toys tout each engine’s desire to be really useful. In “Thomas’ Train,” Thomas is thrilled that Henry’s illness will give him the chance to be Really Useful by pulling a train instead of just coaches. Or cite for the proposition that the engines are purchased vs. recruited? I think it’s fair to say that engines don’t roam the countryside looking for work. They are all employees of the national railroad system. In “Salty’s Secret,” Salty arrives on the Island of Sodor eager to work near the docks. He’s disappointed to be assigned to the quarry – but there’s no sense he’s been enslaved and forced to work there. He’s simply been assigned a job he’d rather not have. Also note that Salty came from similar “salt air” work on the mainland prior to this assignment. In “Horrid Lorries,” Sir Topham Hatt hires the three lorries to help with work. Does it make sense that lorries may be rented out voluntarily, but trains are slaves? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/12 "2005-08-26T18:48:10Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Or cite for the proposition that the engines are purchased vs. recruited? > > I think it’s fair to say that engines don’t roam the countryside looking for work. They are all employees of the national railroad system. > > In “Salty’s Secret,” Salty arrives on the Island of Sodor eager to work near the docks. He’s disappointed to be assigned to the quarry – but there’s no sense he’s been enslaved and forced to work there. He’s simply been assigned a job he’d rather not have. Also note that Salty came from similar “salt air” work on the mainland prior to this assignment. > > In “Horrid Lorries,” Sir Topham Hatt hires the three lorries to help with work. Does it make sense that lorries may be rented out voluntarily, but trains are slaves? No, engines don’t roam about looking for work. They come from other railroads or from the factory; both of which imply ownership. Sir Topham Hatt purchases (or leases) them from those sources, it would seem. Plus, there is the whole scrapping issue. If they weren’t property, Hatt wouldn’t have the option to have them destroyed. The engines and coaches quite properly fear that fate. See the **Old Slowcoach** episode for example. Some of the engines basically had to conspire to save her. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2005, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/13 "2005-08-26T19:26:17Z")
I can’t believe y’all are sinking so much brainpower into this show. 😉 As for the trains, perhaps – like the “Meal of the Day” from the _Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy_ – they are **made** to want to do work and be useful. Why bother with physical chains when you can use mental ones? ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/14 "2005-08-27T02:37:18Z")
My husband, a railroad employee, always wanted to know when Thomas was going to take a trip to the humpyard to be a REALLY useful engine… ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/15 "2005-08-27T03:41:13Z")
> [@GythaOgg](#): > > My husband, a railroad employee, always wanted to know when Thomas was going to take a trip to the humpyard to be a REALLY useful engine… It’s a kid’s show. Any humping is going to take place off-camera 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/16 "2005-08-27T16:36:07Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Almost every engine is motivated by a genuine desire to work. Even the trouble they get into is the result of trying to do harder work than they can handle. > > They are on the Island of Sodor voluntarily, working because they enjoy it. No slavery there. So, if the trains try escaping to the North, do they take an underground railroad, or what? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/17 "2005-08-28T02:58:08Z")
I’m not an expert on all this but as I understand it there were a series of books by the Rev. Audrey, and now there’s dozens of books and videos and whatnot. I think first we have to decide what is and is not canon. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/18 "2005-08-28T03:13:09Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > I spent much of the summer watching **Thomas the Tank Engine** videos with my little girl, but I’m confused by 2 things: > > 1. Do the engines need drivers and firemen to function? In some episodes, the engines refuse to slow down or follow other orders from their drivers, yet in other episodes they don’t seem to be able to those exact same things without a driver. > 2. Are the engines really alive in the context of the show? Sir Toppemhat and the other railroaders seem to have a pretty casual attitude toward scrapping them, if so. The engines do seem to need drivers and firemen to function, at all times. They can think and talk without them, but not move or do any work. The engines do seem to be alive (sentient) in the context of the show. BTW Sir Topham Hat has a thing going on with Mrs. Kyndley. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/19 "2005-08-28T03:19:33Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > So, if the trains try escaping to the North, do they take an underground railroad, or what? > > 😃 I laughed entirely too hard at that. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2005, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685/20 "2005-08-28T11:42:09Z")
I just need to say that I keep reading the thread title as “Clarence Thomas the Tank Engine,” which is just _wrong_. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarify-thomas-the-tank-engine-for-me-please/318685.md?page=2)