# Clarkson is right on this - people who kill themselves via train **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144 "2011-12-05T17:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/21 "2011-12-05T20:31:51Z")
Well, for example, they are going to spend millions to put up suicide barriers on the Golden Gate Bridge. Jumping here doesn’t cause any trauma for the train driver etc. But it would seem that these barriers would just make more dudes jump in front of a train. Why waste millions on barriers to a form of suicide that only hurts the jumper? To be very controversial, I suppose there also could be a suicide center, where suicides are counseled, made to wait for a period of time, then given a does of drugs that would cause them to die peacefully in a private room. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/22 "2011-12-05T20:33:54Z")
The obvious solution is to build big walls with razor-wire around every train track, with towers and armed guards. That’ll stop the suicides. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/23 "2011-12-05T20:40:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, for example, they are going to spend millions to put up suicide barriers on the Golden Gate Bridge. We had a thread about this not long ago. I thought that proposal was abandoned after studies showed that the jumpers would probably just go to another bridge. Is it back on? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/24 "2011-12-05T20:45:24Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Well, that’s just what he’s like - hence my comparison to old Rush in the OP. Last time he made the news [he suggested that strikers should be executed in front of their families](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1L2KLdFcw). He apologised, but does anybody \*really \*think he wanted to see people summarily executed? _Yes._ Really, history demonstrates that statements in the form of “surely they wouldn’t be so nasty as to do that” tend to be wrong. And historically, shooting strikers _has_ been a popular tactic of the powerful. It still is, in many parts of the world. I’m pretty sure that he _really would_ have strikers shot if he could, for the same reason I’m pretty sure that a neo-Nazi really would kill Jews given the chance; because that’s _exactly_ what people like that have done when they had the power to do so. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/25 "2011-12-05T20:46:44Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Well, that’s just what he’s like - hence my comparison to old Rush in the OP. Last time he made the news [he suggested that strikers should be executed in front of their families](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1L2KLdFcw). He apologised, but does anybody \*really \*think he wanted to see people summarily executed? I didn’t agree with him there, but it sure got attention like this has gotten attention. Maybe by throwing it out there - a taboo subject that few others would broach in this manner - he puts the notion in the heads of those are thinking about it that it might in fact be a selfish action and save a train driver and bystanders the trauma. Yeah, that’s just Jezza being Jezza, making a point and carrying it to an illogical extreme to get a rise out of people. However, I have removed throwing myself in front of a train from my list of Plans Z because I thought about the feelings of the engineer and the cleanup crew. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/26 "2011-12-05T20:52:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > _Yes._ Really, history demonstrates that statements in the form of “surely they wouldn’t be so nasty as to do that” tend to be wrong. Missed the edit. To clarify what I meant, I was referring to when the claim that “they’d never do that” is in response to something someone has actually said they support. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/27 "2011-12-05T20:53:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > His solution is really just to “punish” dead people (as if you could) and make himself feel better about it. It’s a fine British tradition! At least as good as burying the body at a crossroads with a stake through its heart. ---
**Author:** ![Wessel1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Wessel1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wessel1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/28 "2011-12-05T21:11:17Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > For those unfamiliar, Jeremy Clarkson is kind of like a much more likeable British version of…well, it’s hard to draw a direct comparison, but Rush Limbaugh springs to mind. Conservative, loud and bolshy, He’s prone to making statements that annoy people, he hates the environment, foreigners (particularly Americans, Germans and the French), suggests that lorry drivers murder prostitutes, said that strikers should be executed and in his most latest controversial statement has [said that people who kill themselves by throwing themselves under trains are “selfish”](http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/dec/03/jeremy-clarkson-accused-trivialising-suicide?newsfeed=true), as well as making a few other choice statements about the subject: > From the linked Guardian piece. > > He has been accused of trivialising suicide and mental health charities like Mind and have called him “extraordinarily tasteless” and ignorant. > > However, I can’t help but agree with him. There are hundreds of ways to kill yourself, and some are more scarring to bystanders than other. There’s a scale, is what I’m saying - most of us would agree that jumping off Beachy Head alone is less scarring than committing Seppuku at a children’s birthday party. We’d probably also agree that the person taking his life in the first scenario is not doing as much damage via his decision than the second, even though the results for the person in question are the same - they end up dead either way. > > Am I a terrible person for thinking this way? We can’t really expect people in that state of mind to think in a rational way, but pointing out that certain methods are objectively worse than others shouldn’t be a cause for controversy. Obviously he used a bit of unnecessary hyperbole - that’s his thing - but I still think he has a point. To leave the bodies to be scavenged by wild animals would certainly deter the future occurrence of people wandering near the tracks, whether they mean to or it’s by accident. However, I think that all human deaths, regardless of method or reason, deserve some respect and time to dwell on, because death is bad and we should not take anyone dying lightly. Also, if animals begin to become accustomed to finding a source of food near the tracks, we might start dealing with many more animal deaths, especially if other animals try to scavenge the dead animals, who were trying to eat the crushed, mangled human bodies in the first place. We do not want to encourage this vicious cycle. Jeremy Clarkson is a prime source of entertainment, and I have appreciated his contributions to my car show Top Gear for years, but as a source of philosophical or intellectual information, what the man puts out to the public is often obscure and irrelevant to implementation in our current or even normative society. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/29 "2011-12-05T21:19:16Z")
Well, a HS friend of mine did this 2 years ago right before Thanksgiving. He had struggled with depression as long as I’d known him (more than 25 years). I really don’t think people who do things like this are thinking clearly. I’m sure that if he had been in his right mind, he never would have wished on his poor beloved, distraught wife the horrible task of identifying his body afterward. But do you seriously think the manner of his death made a huge difference to the hundreds upon hundreds of his current and former students who came to the wake? (He was a hugely popular grade school art teacher.) I think it was (at least I hope it was) a teachable moment about mental illness, and I don’t think any purpose at all would have been served by leaving his body for scavengers, not to mention it would have been even more upsetting to his family and friends (his father, for example, is a psychologist, and was probably beating himself up enough already for not having been able to do anything to stop him). And do you think it would have been any less traumatic for his loved ones if they’d found him hanging (like the wife of another acquaintance did), or suffocated by his own vomit with a plastic bag over his head in the backyard (like the wife of a HS friend found her husband)? People need to take away those bodies, too. OTOH at least he did it at 2:00 am, which isn’t exactly rush hour. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/30 "2011-12-05T21:20:58Z")
And when the wild animals get hit, leave them for _other_ wild animals. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/31 "2011-12-05T21:50:05Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > We had a thread about this not long ago. I thought that proposal was abandoned after studies showed that the jumpers would probably just go to another bridge. Is it back on? Looks like it: [http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2008158,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2008158,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/32 "2011-12-05T21:53:44Z")
Shock jocks don’t just have to have long hair and a hot girlfriend. They can also be like Limbaugh. The point is to get attention and ad dollars. That is the base foundation for all of this kind of programming. Now, there are distinctive styles and some are more entertaining than others. But, “if it don’t bleed, it don’t lead” is still a directive influence on all media. Even here. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/33 "2011-12-05T22:25:49Z")
Oh, please. Jeremy Clarkson is a right-wing blowhard in exactly the same sense that Stephen Colbert is a right-wing blowhard - he plays one on TV. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/34 "2011-12-05T22:45:49Z")
Kind of missing the point. Like debating whether the bank robber was rude for cutting in line. Someone who is in the state of mind to be legitimately suicidal can’t really be expected to consider the bigger picture and others feelings. Yes, suicide by train or by cop comes with collateral damage. So does any suicide. It’s true, but it’s a meaningless thing to discuss. Its not like anyone is going create a PSA that says “sure, kill yourself, just don’t inconvenience anyone else”. ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/35 "2011-12-05T23:18:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It is, but so are a lot of things. Being selfish isn’t inherently bad. > > I’ll grant that traumatizing other people is selfish and that it isn’t a good thing, but I have to disagree with you on this. With the probable exception of parents and caregivers, how can you owe it to someone else to go on living a life you don’t want? Doesn’t that create kind of screwed up relationship and priorities- they don’t want to live, but they have to keep living because someone else wants them to? Hence the part where I said “to a certain extent”. If I love someone, I would like to know that they will take a minimal of care with my love for them. Try not to kill people I love, including yourself. I definitely don’t mean ending your life is always the wrong decision. It is always selfish, because you prioritise your not wanting to live over a loved one’s wanting you to live. But that is perhaps not always bad. If there is a real reason you cannot go on living, you have the responsibility to loved ones to discuss that with them. There is a chance that is not possible at all, which is really sad. There should be a less selfish way of doing this that includes adequate help and then perhaps euthanasia. In Holland, this is currently under discussion. I also think that it is important to see what Clarkson does: he just throws it out there, add the nuance in your head. So discuss it! Sure it’s nasty to think about, suicide is nasty. Picking bits of human off a train is nasty. Let’s talk about why we _don’t_ just leave them there to rot. For me: the people they leave behind deserve to have a special place where their loved one’s body is at peace. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/36 "2011-12-05T23:22:02Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Oh, please. Jeremy Clarkson is a right-wing blowhard in exactly the same sense that Stephen Colbert is a right-wing blowhard - he plays one on TV. Incorrect. Clarkson is a happy member of the Chipping Norton set. He may use hyperbole for effect, but a right wing, Tory blowhard he is. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/37 "2011-12-05T23:26:40Z")
He may be right-wing to some degree, but his first and biggest target is always himself - and that is not typical blowhard behavior. Plus, an actual hard-rightist would never get so chummy with the likes of Stephen Fry. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/38 "2011-12-05T23:35:15Z")
> [@gracer](#): > > If there is a real reason you cannot go on living, you have the responsibility to loved ones to discuss that with them. In 99% of cases, there wouldn’t really be a meaningful discussion. No loved one is going to say, “Oh, I am all behind you in your decision to kill yourself! I’ll call the funeral home right now!” No, the “discussion” will be your loves ones convincing you to commit yourself to a hospital. The moment you say, “I want to die”, that’s it. No one is really going to care why you want to do it, because you’re instantly branded as crazy and “in need of help.” 'Tis easier to make your arrangements, write a good note, and just do it. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/39 "2011-12-05T23:39:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > He may be right-wing to some degree, but his first and biggest target is always himself - and that is not typical blowhard behavior. Plus, an actual hard-rightist would never get so chummy with the likes of Stephen Fry. There is no ‘to some degree’. He is. He has a history of blowhard behaviour going back a decade or so. All this is nothing new. And of course he uses himself as a target. He is a right wing xenophobic blowhard but he is still British. Targeting ourselves regarding jokes is what we do. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144/40 "2011-12-05T23:45:24Z")
That’s your opinion. I think he is first and foremost a comedian, and he says things because he thinks people will find them funny, and not because he hopes or expects anyone to actually agree with him. I’m quite surprised anyone takes him seriously. I bet he is, too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarkson-is-right-on-this-people-who-kill-themselves-via-train/605144.md?page=3)