# Class indicators in USA society? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330 "2014-04-17T07:33:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/41 "2014-04-17T19:39:20Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Certain hobbies, and familiarity with certain things. If someone says they like to ski, it’s likely they came from a background that could afford to go regularly. Similarly, I see families whose kids play hockey or pop Warner football tend to be more well to do than kids who play basketball. Try equestrian sports. We were poor white trash compared to lots of people at my daughter’s barn. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/42 "2014-04-17T19:39:44Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’ve heard that this is the origin of the term “redneck”. Rednecks were white people who were poor enough that they had to spend all day working in the fields, which, in many parts of The South, will give a white person a lot of sun. Did anyone else also think that the word _redneck_ also alluded to short haircuts that leave the back of the neck exposed, contributing to sunburn? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/43 "2014-04-17T19:48:50Z")
> [@JuliaSqueezer](#): > > Grammar. > > Here in the middle of the US, hearing “We was so glad to see that” answered with “Was ya?”. “Oh yah. I seen him. We all seen him.” > > Also “We have went there.” > > All accepted as correct in the lower classes. Some of it’s not just the lower classes anymore. Many otherwise well-educated native speakers now seem generally stumped by common irregular verbs like “run” and “eat”. They don’t want to believe that a verb can have a different form for simple past and present/past perfect, so words like “shrank”, “stank”, and “sank” are fading out of use. Or it may be the participle that starts to fade, we now hear “have ate”, sometimes, instead of “have eaten”. Another source of confusion is when the participle is exactly the same as the root, so we now hear constructions like “have ran” all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/44 "2014-04-17T19:53:51Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Yet is class the same as money, even in the USA? No. Some of the “low-class indicators” here are quite expensive! I’m broke as can be, but according to everything in this thread, I have solidly upper-middle to upper-class indicators. (except for being fat, ha ha) We’ve already discussed how you can be rich and still have low-class indicators, but it also works in the opposite direction. > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > No. Poor people are more likely to get… ostentatiously done hair and/or nails. > > Rich women can easily spend hundreds on a haircut and a french manicure, you just won’t _notice_ it as obviously unless you’re looking for it. I agree with this, except for **Dangerosa** ’s note that French manicures are the province of those who are trying to look rich these days. If the hair looks like there is no way it could be natural, then it is likely that the person is working class. For black women, I associate “natural” hairstyles such with higher levels of class/education. The converse is not necessarily true, but if the hairstyle is outlandish, I will assume the person is working class. > [@Claverhouse](#): > > …maybe the garish versions are those marketed as a function of price to the poor, whereas the restrained are more expensive. Not necessarily. For example, when I went to buy a Polo-brand polo shirt for my brother for Christmas, the ones with the humongous embroidered pony were the same price as the normal ones.\* Or more expensive, because a bunch of the normal ones were on sale. Cheap knockoffs change this equation a bit because they are more likely to loudly show off the fake brand. > [@Flyer](#): > > Now all classes of people want to be as tan as possible. As a matter of fact, it’s probably upper class and upper-middle class people who are the most tan, because they can most easily afford weekly sessions in a tanning booth. Say what? Fake tans are really déclassé. Upper-er class people who aren’t actively trying to look rich may indeed do a little fake’n’bake, but like the manicures or the hair color, the effect will be subtle and natural-looking. - I was told to get the Polo one by my SIL because she likes the quality and fit, not because she cares about showing the brand. She didn’t have to tell me not to get the one with the big embroidery because she knows I wouldn’t do that. And yes, she chooses his clothes, much to his benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/45 "2014-04-17T19:55:39Z")
> [@JuliaSqueezer](#): > > Grammar. > > Here in the middle of the US, hearing “We was so glad to see that” answered with “Was ya?”. “Oh yah. I seen him. We all seen him.” > > Also “We have went there.” > > All accepted as correct in the lower classes. Some of it’s not just the lower classes anymore. Many otherwise well-educated native speakers now seem generally stumped by common irregular verbs like “run” and “eat”. They don’t want to believe that a verb can have a different form for simple past and present/past perfect, so words like “shrank”, “stank”, and “sank” are fading out of use. Or it may be the participle that starts to fade, we now hear “have ate”, sometimes, instead of “have eaten”. Another source of confusion is when the participle is exactly the same as the root, so we now hear constructions like “have ran” all the time. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/46 "2014-04-17T20:09:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m surprised nobody has mentioned tattoos yet. To me, the more extreme the lower on the class scale. Sure, your upper class girl might have a butterfly on the ankle, but facial and hand tattoos seem to me a lower class or prisoner thing. I tend to agree, altho it should be pointed out there are a lot of rich professional athletes and rock stars sporting tattoo’d sleeves and such. In the same line of thinking - what about piercings? Not your garden-variety ear rings. You wont see too many bankers, lawyers, or doctors with an ear gauge or tounge piercing. Not to mention other body parts. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/47 "2014-04-17T20:32:12Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > I tend to agree, altho it should be pointed out there are a lot of rich professional athletes and rock stars sporting tattoo’d sleeves and such. Money and class aren’t synonymous, remember? Also, class indicators are not evidence. There will be many exceptions to everything here. Things are a lot more tangled when looking at celebrities. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/48 "2014-04-18T00:11:55Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > IME, “axing” questions nowadays is a pretty sure sign of being black. Come to Lake and Porter county Indiana and see if you can still say that. Plenty of non-blacks say “ax” for “ask” around here. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/49 "2014-04-18T00:46:02Z")
> [@Furious\_Marmot](#): > > This American has a stereotypically hard time disentangling class, wealth, and income, not to mention the societal- vs. self-perception thereof. One of the legends of St. Louis is that the city lost the headquarters of SBC (aka, AT&T) because the chairman of the company was rejected for membership by the area’s most exclusive country club. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/50 "2014-04-18T02:52:20Z")
If someone’s living room is large enough to support multiple chairs/sofas/what have you, then the arrangement of the furniture is very indicative of class. If all the seats are pointed at the TV, you’re looking at someone from the working class or lower middle class. If the seating is not, then you’re dealing with someone from the upper middle class. If they have a living room without a TV, they’re probably rich. ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/51 "2014-04-18T03:30:09Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > If they have a living room without a TV, they’re probably rich. I didn’t know I was rich! ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/52 "2014-04-18T04:14:48Z")
Nor me. 🙂 No television, no fake tan, heck, I am feeling really rich now. Perhaps I should inform my bank manager.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/53 "2014-04-18T07:23:02Z")
> [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](#): > > Above ground pool and/or trampoline. > > I saw a picture of Michael Vick’s mansion the other day. Five acres of manicured lawn. Probably ten bedrooms. And an above ground pool. > > Money doesn’t buy class. This makes no sense to me. Obviously he knows in-ground pools exist and could afford one, and knows that they’re considered more attractive, so if he wants one, he can get one. There has to be some other reason for him to have an above-ground pool besides him not being classy enough. Every rich person is classy enough to pour money into shit. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/54 "2014-04-18T10:32:21Z")
At our house we call it the “rim ratio”. I think it’s a pretty good indicator of class in most situations. The price of a car’s wheels over the price of the car itself (W/C). Class of the owner is inversely proportional to the result. If the typical rim ratio approaches 1.0, you should probably avoid that neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/55 "2014-04-18T13:08:27Z")
Paul Fussell’s _Class: A Guide Through the American Class System_ is a well known book on the subject. Below is a (somewhat dated) link to a quiz to find your class based on the contents of your living room. [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/05/begin\_with\_a\_base\_score037567.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/05/begin_with_a_base_score037567.php) ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/56 "2014-04-18T13:11:04Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Skin tone used to be a class marker – 100 years ago. > > Now all classes of people want to be as tan as possible. As a matter of fact, it’s probably upper class and upper-middle class people who are the most tan, because they can most easily afford weekly sessions in a tanning booth. > > Never before has it been so socially acceptable to play Russian roulette with skin cancer. I don’t think she meant skin tone (although porcelain is slowly becoming the new tan) so much as the skin quality. Kids who wear sunscreen all the time will have less sun damage than kids who only wear it for long-term exposure, but that difference won’t become apparent until they’re middle-aged, at which point it tends to become _really_ obvious. And skin tone has been a class marker much more recently than 100 years ago. Why do you think all classes of people want to be tan? When poor people worked outside in the fields all day, being pale meant you were rich enough to loll around in the shade all day. When we made the shift to poor and working-class people being cooped up inside factories and offices all day, being tan meant you were rich enough to be outside having fun during the day. And if you were tan in the winter, that meant you were rich enough to vacation somewhere sunny during the expensive season. That’s how the sun lamp/tanning bed was born, from cubicle drones wanting to look like the rich folks. > [@pullin](#): > > At our house we call it the “rim ratio”. I think it’s a pretty good indicator of class in most situations. > > The price of a car’s wheels over the price of the car itself (W/C). Class of the owner is inversely proportional to the result. > > If the typical rim ratio approaches 1.0, you should probably avoid that neighborhood. In our house, it’s the t:t ratio–tattoos to teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/57 "2014-04-18T13:37:40Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Paul Fussell’s _Class: A Guide Through the American Class System_ is a well known book on the subject. Below is a (somewhat dated) link to a quiz to find your class based on the contents of your living room. > [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/05/begin\_with\_a\_base\_score037567.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/05/begin_with_a_base_score037567.php) Hell yeah! See me squeaking into the middle class! IN YOUR FACE! Wait, did I just lose points for that? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/58 "2014-04-18T15:16:16Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Paul Fussell’s _Class: A Guide Through the American Class System_ is a well known book on the subject. Below is a (somewhat dated) link to a quiz to find your class based on the contents of your living room. > [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/05/begin\_with\_a\_base\_score037567.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/ten-miles-square/2012/05/begin_with_a_base_score037567.php) Shit! I knew I should have paid attention when people told me not to keep my washing machine and motorcycle in the living room. At least I’ve got these ashtrays to bolster my score… ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/59 "2014-04-18T15:33:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’ve noticed it more as poor people, if they have branding at all, have it very clearly and noticeably exhibited. Ralph Lauren Polo shirts with huge polo ponies and the like. Rich people, if they even wear Ralph Lauren at all, wear the tasteful stuff with the small pony embroidered on the chest. > > That stereotype(?) seems to hold in general- if there’s a restrained and a garish version of something, the restrained one will be the province of the rich, and the garish one will be the province of the poor, be it fingernails, hairdos, cars/car accessories, etc… > [@Claverhouse](#): > > I despise ‘branding’ as much as I despise the concept of fashion, but maybe the garish versions are those marketed as a function of price to the poor, whereas the restrained are more expensive. Well, sure. The kind of person who can afford an Armani suit and the kind of person who can afford (and would want) an Armani t-shirt are two very different groups of people, with different priorities. The guy in the $2500 suit doesn’t generally care if you know what brand it is; the guy who bought the $35 t-shirt with a huge gold foil Armani logo on front, OTOH… ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/60 "2014-04-18T16:40:00Z")
A few others came to mind: Junker car on your driveway, or parked on your lawn, or on blocks, being used for parts. Low class. Project car in your garage, that you are “restoring”. Higher class. Dead/no/cement landscaping in front yard. Low class. Xeriscaping in the front yard. Higher class. Bars on the windows, chain-link fence around the front yard. Low class. Wrought-iron bars on the windows, decorative iron fence around the front yard. Higher class. Fruit trees in visible in yard. Low class. Ornamental vineyard visible in yard. Higher class. “Beware of Dog” posted on fence. Low class. “Poodle Crossing” posted on fence. Higher class. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330.md?page=4)