# Class indicators in USA society? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 17, 2014, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330 "2014-04-17T07:33:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/161 "2014-04-23T19:02:52Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > But, in the US we confuse wealth and class a lot. They are actually separate. A college professor with a moderate income is in a different class than a guy with a high school education who owns a carwash who in fact makes more money. And they both know it. Interesting, and I agree. When I was in grad school, a friend of ours was chasing the daughter of an oil man (this was in Louisiana.) Somehow we got invited to a fancy brunch at the Oil Center in Lafayette. Despite the fact that the guy made 50 times what I was making at the time, I felt that as a grad student (and being from exotic New York) I was accepted in the same class he was in. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/162 "2014-04-23T19:34:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not that I particularly want to hate on the woman, but Chelsea Clinton seems like a very public manifestation of this. > > She’s clearly a brilliant woman, and I’m sure she’s hard working, but her schooling and career trajectory strikes me as something that is only really attainable by the children of upper class people with plenty of money and connections. I mean, Sidwell Friends school, followed by Stanford, Oxford and Columbia? Then a high-paying job at McKinsey followed by being on several boards of directors of non-profits and other organizations, and a stint on NBC? > > Let’s say that Clinton lost to Bush in 1992- would Chelsea Clinton, daughter of former Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton have had the same trajectory as Chelsea Clinton, daughter of former President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton? Probably not; she’d probably be something moderately important in Arkansas, or maybe work for a Dallas consulting firm or something like that. I actually do know a fair number of alumni from Stanford, Columbia and McKinsey, as well as other similar schools and firms. Her career does strike me as a very “upper class” career path. Top schools since high school (of which her dad was an alumni of one - Oxford). A couple of short 1-3 year stints at some very prestigious firms, followed by just sort of being inserted into various “board of director” roles. Maybe VP of this or that at some startup venture. It strikes me as the career of someone who is really smart and motivated trying different things and seeing what she likes. Compared to someone starting out at McKinsey as an Analyst or Associate and willing to grind it out for 15 years until they make Partner. Then again, Jenna Bush graduated from University of Texas as Austin. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/163 "2014-04-23T19:46:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Then again, Jenna Bush graduated from University of Texas as Austin. I suspect Chelsea has more brains AND ambition - PLUS the connections. Jenna is unlikely to go wanting for a job, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/164 "2014-04-23T21:01:45Z")
Becoming president is one of very few ways you can truly upjump the class of you and yours . However, the effect fizzles if the next generation doesn’t adopt an upper class career (see for example Amy Carter, who was dismissed from Brown for academic nonperformance; Maureen Reagan, who never really was on that track either). ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/165 "2014-04-23T22:02:32Z")
poor people and lower class people very lazy ,sitting around on front porch ,couch potato TV ,booze ,bars ,drinking and smoking.More booze and haging out. Lack of intellectual talking , hate reading books ,hate school, no college or university.Hate education , hate intellectual and learning. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/166 "2014-04-23T22:03:11Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > poor people and lower class people very lazy ,sitting around on front porch ,couch potato TV ,booze ,bars ,drinking and smoking.More booze and haging out. > > Lack of intellectual talking , hate reading books ,hate school, no college or university.Hate education , hate intellectual and learning. How have you lasted a year and a half here? ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/167 "2014-04-23T22:08:55Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > How have you lasted a year and a half here? huu? ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/168 "2014-04-23T22:57:45Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > poor people and lower class people very lazy ,sitting around on front porch ,couch potato TV ,booze ,bars ,drinking and smoking.More booze and haging out. > > Lack of intellectual talking , hate reading books ,hate school, no college or university.Hate education , hate intellectual and learning. Well, it looks as though you also have “no college or university”, so I wonder why you are so judgemental about “poor people and lower class people”. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/169 "2014-04-24T19:57:13Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Even Chelsea Clinton, daughter of two Ivy League educated attorneys would have had a better career path than Chelsea Clinton, daughter of guy who was in the middle of his law school class at the University of Arkansas. I think that the extent and distance you can get from family connections is a marker of class - in both the socio and economic senses of the world. > > On the other hand, she probably doesn’t have an uncle who can get her a great deal on a tv that fell off a truck… [Roger Clinton.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Clinton,_Jr.) ---
**Author:** ![Sahirrnee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sahirrnee/32/13937_2.png) [@Sahirrnee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sahirrnee)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/170 "2014-04-24T23:52:52Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > poor people and lower class people very lazy ,sitting around on front porch ,couch potato TV ,booze ,bars ,drinking and smoking.More booze and haging out. > > Lack of intellectual talking , hate reading books ,hate school, no college or university.Hate education , hate intellectual and learning. rich people and upper class people smoke, snort coke, sit in clubs, dance in clubs, drink better booze, snort some more coke, drink some more booze, hang out talk about their latest car, their latest boat, their latest screw, and shop, lots and lots of shopping go to college, socialize with the other upper class kids, cut their classes, daddy makes a huge donation to keep them from being expelled hang out in clubs, more drinking, more snorting, more sex, get a poor girl pregnant, daddy pays to make her go away get a few DWIs, daddy pays to make them go away gets out of school, daddy gets them a job in the firm, behind a big desk in the corner office, where they can’t do any damage where they smoke, drink, snort coke, and screw the secretary daddy and/or mommy finds them the appropriate spouse so they can produce heirs, in between smoking, snorting, drinking and screwing the help Sometimes they even get on reality shows, (where they can smoke, and drink, no snorting on TV - that’s illegal and have sex - with tapes to be released at a later date) where they can show their ass - both literally and figuratively but hey, why should all the poor low class people get to have all the fun? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/171 "2014-04-27T12:58:32Z")
> [@Sahirrnee](#): > > rich people and upper class people smoke, snort coke, sit in clubs, dance in clubs, drink better booze, snort some more coke, drink some more booze, hang out > talk about their latest car, their latest boat, their latest screw, > and shop, lots and lots of shopping > go to college, socialize with the other upper class kids, cut their classes, > daddy makes a huge donation to keep them from being expelled > hang out in clubs, more drinking, more snorting, more sex, > get a poor girl pregnant, daddy pays to make her go away > get a few DWIs, daddy pays to make them go away > gets out of school, daddy gets them a job in the firm, behind a big desk in the corner office, where they can’t do any damage > where they smoke, drink, snort coke, and screw the secretary > daddy and/or mommy finds them the appropriate spouse so they can produce heirs, > in between smoking, snorting, drinking and screwing the help > > Sometimes they even get on reality shows, > (where they can smoke, and drink, no snorting on TV - that’s illegal > and have sex - > with tapes to be released at a later date) > where they can show their ass - both literally and figuratively Um…yeah dude. Why do you think people want to be rich? What part of your post doesn’t sound awesome?🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Nylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/77aa72/32.png) [@Mr.Nylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Nylock)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/172 "2014-04-27T13:13:57Z")
It sounds awesome to me too, but based on my own interactions with those folks, they didn’t seem particularly happy. I’ve known lots of folks from all backgrounds, and plenty of non miserable wealthy people, but none of them acted like that. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/173 "2014-04-27T17:24:15Z")
“Money doesn’t buy happiness. I have $50 million dollars, and I was just as happy a year ago when I only had $48 million.” –Arnold Schwarzenegger ---
**Author:** ![ihaveone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f08c70/32.png) [@ihaveone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ihaveone)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/174 "2016-12-25T23:42:30Z")
I have one: people who talk about what it means to be “upper class” = \*\* middle class\*\*(at best) ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/175 "2017-09-11T04:41:54Z")
This was an interesting thread, with fascinating answers. I recently thought of one example and I will try my best to explain it. To me hypermasculinity among certain men denotes low class. Now most lower class men are not like this, but there those who when you see it, you know it. They have a certain walk, it’s swag but not just any swag, more like how a gang member walks. Their aura and everything exudes this “tough guy” persona. When you observe them, they are usually dressed a certain way. Could be a wife beater, baggy/sagging pants, may or may not have tattoos, or shorts that are too low. When you see them, you think this guy may have been in prison before, he seems violent and he just looks like he wants to show everyone how tough he is. You’ll more likely see these men around bad parts of town, or better yet at a Greyhound bus station. Also add that he may be riding a ghetto style bike and if owns a dog, most likely it will be a pitbull. The type where you would not give a ride to, or invite to your home. That “shady” look. Even worse when said man is over 40. I wish I had photos to better demonstrate what I am talking about. I have seen this example among black, white and hispanic men, and when I see it I think-low class, little to no education, may have been locked up before. The most famous example of this look would be Danny Trejo, putting aside the fact that he is an actor, if he were not famous most of us would not assume he was a high class person. I guess my point is, the lower class and lower education, mixed with criminal history, the more emphasis on beig masculine. Now middle class and rich guys can be tough guys and even violent assholes. But usually it’s more of frat boy variety. Look I admit my terminology in describing these examples is not good, but I don’t know how else to describe it. Lots of men have a masculinity to them, there are many examples of it. But while those can be described as confident, cocky or frat boy toughness, they look normal if you see them out on the street, while the type I described looks like a gang member. Another example is mafia look, low class but again has that tough persona. I think an emphasis on hypermasculinity is a sign of low class. High class men are vary, but they tend to be more secure and not bent on looking like a tough guy. Take Justin Trudeau, Prince William, Barack Obama or even a really young guy Cindy Crawford’s son, Presley. They seem high class, secure, educated but they are masculine. Now take Danny Trejo or Mike Tyson, that is low class look. Hope what I said made sense. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/176 "2017-09-11T06:12:30Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > This was an interesting thread, with fascinating answers. I recently thought of one example and I will try my best to explain it. To me hypermasculinity among certain men denotes low class. Now most lower class men are not like this, but there those who when you see it, you know it. > > They have a certain walk, it’s swag but not just any swag, more like how a gang member walks. Their aura and everything exudes this “tough guy” persona. When you observe them, they are usually dressed a certain way. Could be a wife beater, baggy/sagging pants, may or may not have tattoos, or shorts that are too low. When you see them, you think this guy may have been in prison before, he seems violent and he just looks like he wants to show everyone how tough he is. You’ll more likely see these men around bad parts of town, or better yet at a Greyhound bus station. > > Also add that he may be riding a ghetto style bike and if owns a dog, most likely it will be a pitbull. The type where you would not give a ride to, or invite to your home. That “shady” look. Even worse when said man is over 40. > > I wish I had photos to better demonstrate what I am talking about. I have seen this example among black, white and hispanic men, and when I see it I think-low class, little to no education, may have been locked up before. The most famous example of this look would be Danny Trejo, putting aside the fact that he is an actor, if he were not famous most of us would not assume he was a high class person. > > I guess my point is, the lower class and lower education, mixed with criminal history, the more emphasis on beig masculine. Now middle class and rich guys can be tough guys and even violent assholes. But usually it’s more of frat boy variety. Look I admit my terminology in describing these examples is not good, but I don’t know how else to describe it. Lots of men have a masculinity to them, there are many examples of it. But while those can be described as confident, cocky or frat boy toughness, they look normal if you see them out on the street, while the type I described looks like a gang member. > Another example is mafia look, low class but again has that tough persona. > > I think an emphasis on hypermasculinity is a sign of low class. High class men are vary, but they tend to be more secure and not bent on looking like a tough guy. Take Justin Trudeau, Prince William, Barack Obama or even a really young guy Cindy Crawford’s son, Presley. They seem high class, secure, educated but they are masculine. Now take Danny Trejo or Mike Tyson, that is low class look. > > Hope what I said made sense. A recent example of masculinity (or perhaps even “hypermasculinity”) comes to us via the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey: I don’t think [this guy](https://i0.wp.com/scng-dash.digitalfirstmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/aptopix_harvey_24395647.jpg) is low-class at all, but I would call him very masculine. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/177 "2017-09-11T13:53:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A recent example of masculinity (or perhaps even “hypermasculinity”) comes to us via the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey: I don’t think [this guy](https://i0.wp.com/scng-dash.digitalfirstmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/aptopix_harvey_24395647.jpg) is low-class at all, but I would call him very masculine. Yes, that guy is very masculine, but I’m not getting a hyper-masculine "I’m putting my masculinity on display " vibe. More like “Hey, I’m masculine, let me put it to good use!” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/178 "2017-09-11T15:46:19Z")
> [@Nema98](#): > > I think an emphasis on hypermasculinity is a sign of low class. High class men are vary, but they tend to be more secure and not bent on looking like a tough guy. Take Justin Trudeau, Prince William, Barack Obama or even a really young guy Cindy Crawford’s son, Presley. They seem high class, secure, educated but they are masculine. Now take Danny Trejo or Mike Tyson, that is low class look. > > Hope what I said made sense. It does. I think a lot of it has to do with how more intellectual or artistic work is considered “upper class” while manual or physical work is considered “lower class”. Also an association between the lower classes and unrefined or “brutish” behavior like brawling, swearing, and petty crime. Think of an upper class prep school where “bullying” would consist of gossip or being socially ostracized. In the lower class school, they’d just beat you up. It’s sort of the reason that Donald Trump, in spite of all his wealth and fancy clothes business school education, is so appealing to his base. He doesn’t look or talk or act like those fancy-pants politicians like Obama or Mitt Romney. He talks about “grabbing pussy” and punching dudes in the face like a “regular guy”. > [@Dangerosa](#): > > I suspect Chelsea has more brains AND ambition - PLUS the connections. Jenna is unlikely to go wanting for a job, though. I think Jenna’s on the Today Show now. > [@Ihaveone](#): > > people who talk about what it means to be “upper class” = middle class(at best) It’s a good thing we aren’t talking about that then. We are having an intellectual discussion on how various learned behaviors and mannerisms helps exacerbate socioeconomic divides.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/179 "2017-09-12T01:11:40Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > A recent example of masculinity (or perhaps even “hypermasculinity”) comes to us via the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey: I don’t think [this guy](https://i0.wp.com/scng-dash.digitalfirstmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/aptopix_harvey_24395647.jpg) is low-class at all, but I would call him very masculine. No he does not seem low class at all, he seems like a burly, masculine man. Again being masculine is normal and crosses all social classes of men, heck there are plenty of masculine gay men. The man you showed seems like a normal guy who seems outdoorsy and big, who can help someone in need. Middle class and upper class men tend to vary, but usually their masculinity is not shady looking. Danny Trejo is a prime example, the guy is in his 70s and yet he still has this scary, shady look to him. He even mentions jokingly, in commercials and what not. Trejo is of low class background and has been in prison, and boy does it show. ---
**Author:** ![Nema98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d2c977/32.png) [@Nema98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nema98)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330/180 "2017-09-12T01:15:23Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Yes, that guy is very masculine, but I’m not getting a hyper-masculine "I’m putting my masculinity on display " vibe. More like “Hey, I’m masculine, let me put it to good use!” This, he does not look lie he as been locked up before. Just a great masculine guy who can someone in need. Think of it this way, masculinity is important to guys growing up in Chicago’s Southside rather than someone in BEVERLY Hills. If you go to prison, you want to look tough whereas in working in the theater, here is no need because it’s a safe environment. Lower class and more dangerous the environment, the more looking tough is emphasized. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/class-indicators-in-usa-society/686330.md?page=10)