# Classic pop/rock acts who would not make it in the post-"American Idol" music scene **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178 "2006-12-14T21:10:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Don\_Draper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Don\_Draper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_Draper)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/1 "2006-12-14T21:10:29Z")
This morning I pulled out my “greatest hits of the Supremes” disc to listen to as I had my morning coffee. I looked at the back cover (I don’t have the specific cover photo, but [this](http://www.vinyl-masterpiece.com/catalog/images/The%20Supremes.jpg) is a close approximate) and was struck by the fact that the three ladies in question actually weren’t especially beautiful. Not even Diana Ross. In fact, Florence Ballard & Mary Wilson were actually kind of homely looking by today’s standards. It struck me that if the Supremes were a brand new act in this day & age, with the same caliber of singing, and songwriting & playing behind them, they wouldn’t make much of an impact solely because they are not - by today’s standards - pretty. In today’s post-MTV, post-Britney, post-American Idol world, being telegenic is not the most important factor in determining success as a pop music act; it’s the _only_ factor that matters. Who cares if the latest pop tart can’t sing or play a lick of music on any instrument whatsoever? So long as they look good on a tv screen, they’ll get pushed on the American public. It got me to wondering what legendary, classic-rock musical acts wouldn’t have been successful if they were forced to play by today’s music industry body-fascist standards? Virtually all the most famous classic rock stars would be marginalized. The Beatles would have made the cut, but the Rolling Stones would be nowhere. Janis Joplin would never have made it out of Texas. Joe Cocker? Tina Turner? Patti Smith? No, nuh-uh, and nope. Neither the Cars nor the B-52s would have gotten record deals. Record labels would have demanded that the Mamas & the Papas dump Cass Elliot (the most talented member of the group IMO) before signing them. Waddaya think? ---
**Author:** ![Autumn\_Almanac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d26b3c/32.png) [@Autumn\_Almanac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autumn_Almanac)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/2 "2006-12-14T21:16:30Z")
You’re kind of talking about two different things. Teeny-bopper pop music, where image trumps all; and rock, where image is important but musical talent and ingenuity also count. Both scenes were around in the '60s and both are still around today. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/3 "2006-12-14T21:20:48Z")
I’ve always had this fantasy of a young Ian Anderson competing on AI. (How, I don’t know. Don’t you have to be American?\*) Imagine how Simon would have ripped into him. \*Yes, I know. Years ago it could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/4 "2006-12-14T21:22:03Z")
I’m not a watcher of American Idol, but even I know that few of the names that have emerged from the show are beautiful pop tarts or their male equivalents. In fact, there was a big battle for the Dreamgirls role of the talented but overweight member of the group between Fantasia and Jennifer Hudson, two non-pretty Idols who have gone on to more success than the pretty things. So you’re wrong in several ways. First, there have always been pop tarts and male pin-ups, dating back to the 1950s. American Idol-type singing has nothing to do with pop star singing or success. Groups have nothing to do with pop tarts or what makes them successful. Prettiness is like a separate genre, one that has little if anything to do with the rest of popular music. You’re mixing apples and oranges and rutabagas and truffles together. As rants go, this one’s lacks any coherency. It has a lousy beat and I can’t dance to it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/5 "2006-12-14T21:31:07Z")
And apart from all that, if you ask me, the Supremes were cute as buttons. ( **tdn** , I love your idea of Ian Anderson. The sick part is that I’ve never seen even one minute of AI in my life, but I know exactly who “Simon” is.) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/6 "2006-12-14T22:23:57Z")
Secord - okay, what did the judges think of our latest contestant, **Bob Dylan**? Randy: I thought he was a bit pitchy Paula: I just want to thank him for being such a great guy - he’s our Denim Teddy Bear! Simon: Well, Mr. Dylan - if that’s what you call yourself - frankly I can’t see you having a hope of making it. You stink - your songs are not commercial and your renderings of them make me want to poor flaming oil into my ears so I never hear again. Secord: Well, there you have it, Bobby my boy! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/7 "2006-12-14T22:56:44Z")
[QUOTE=Exapno Mapcase] In fact, there was a big battle for the Dreamgirls role of the talented but overweight member of the group between Fantasia and Jennifer Hudson, two non-pretty Idols who have gone on to more success than the pretty things. [/QUOTE] I don’t know. Admittedly, I’m looking at things from the perspective not only of a 35-year-old, but of a gay man, but Jennifer Hudson seems absolutely gorgeous to me. As did (and does) Jennifer Holliday (the original Effie in the Broadway run). Besides, with voices like those, who the hell cares how they look? Listening to Holliday on “And I Am Telling You” from the original cast recording absolutely blows me away. I’m eagerly awaiting hearing Hudson take that song on. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/8 "2006-12-15T01:01:52Z")
[QUOTE=WordMan] Secord - okay, what did the judges think of our latest contestant, **Bob Dylan**? Randy: I thought he was a bit pitchy Paula: I just want to thank him for being such a great guy - he’s our Denim Teddy Bear! Simon: Well, Mr. Dylan - if that’s what you call yourself - frankly I can’t see you having a hope of making it. You stink - your songs are not commercial and your renderings of them make me want to poor flaming oil into my ears so I never hear again. Secord: Well, there you have it, Bobby my boy! [/QUOTE] Umm - make that Seacrest… :smack: ---
**Author:** ![UntouchedTakeaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d78d45/32.png) [@UntouchedTakeaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UntouchedTakeaway)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/9 "2006-12-15T01:07:01Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I don’t know. Admittedly, I’m looking at things from the perspective not only of a 35-year-old, but of a gay man, but Jennifer Hudson seems absolutely gorgeous to me. As did (and does) Jennifer Holliday (the original Effie in the Broadway run). Besides, with voices like those, who the hell cares how they look? Listening to Holliday on “And I Am Telling You” from the original cast recording absolutely blows me away. I’m eagerly awaiting hearing Hudson take that song on. [/QUOTE] I believe the “buzz” is that Hudson is mopping the floor with Beyonce in that movie. What about Christopher Cross? Hasn’t he always been held up as a poster child for how your career could be cut short if you didn’t have the looks for MTV? [http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0439479801/80s/pics/varias/cc.jpg](http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0439479801/80s/pics/varias/cc.jpg) VCNJ~ ---
**Author:** ![koeeoaddi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/koeeoaddi/32/408_2.png) [@koeeoaddi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/koeeoaddi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/10 "2006-12-15T01:16:12Z")
[QUOTE=tdn] I’ve always had this fantasy of a young Ian Anderson competing on AI. (How, I don’t know. Don’t you have to be American?\*) Imagine how Simon would have ripped into him. [/QUOTE] Or Frank Zappa! Besides, young Ian was smokin’ hot – if you were into that whole shaggy, moccasin wearing, hippie-minstrel thing. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/11 "2006-12-15T02:33:48Z")
[QUOTE=Veuve\_ClicquotNJ] I believe the “buzz” is that Hudson is mopping the floor with Beyonce in that movie. What about Christopher Cross? Hasn’t he always been held up as a poster child for how your career could be cut short if you didn’t have the looks for MTV? [http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0439479801/80s/pics/varias/cc.jpg](http://pwp.netcabo.pt/0439479801/80s/pics/varias/cc.jpg) VCNJ~ [/QUOTE] Didn’t Christopher Cross suck after that one good song? He won a Grammy for some treacle instead of “Ride Like the Wind,” though, which is good evidence for how much he sucked. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/12 "2006-12-15T03:08:24Z")
Actually I think that might be good evidence of how the judging/voting (whatever the hell it is) process for the Grammys sucks. ---
**Author:** ![akira5822](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@akira5822](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akira5822)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/13 "2006-12-15T04:48:14Z")
Can you imagine Elvis Costello getting by the idol panel?? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/14 "2006-12-15T09:14:33Z")
Could you imagine Van Morrison on _idol_? With the dancing… ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/15 "2006-12-15T09:25:23Z")
Well, this seems as good a place as any to bring this up (although it might be a whole nother thread). Anyways, my buddy and I have repeatedly discussed the subject of “What classic rock singer could have actually WON American Idol?” The only person we could agree on was **Freddie Mercury**. (BTW If anybody wants to move/continue this hijack in another thread, be my guest - maybe one of you serial threadstarters is running a little low this month. Holidays and all…) ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/16 "2006-12-15T13:15:58Z")
Yes, Bob Dylan would have been ripped apart if he’d been on an “American Idol” type show, but Simon wouldn’t have criticized Dylan’s songs, because Dylan wouldn’t have gotten to sing his own songs! He’d have to sing covers of Pop/Top 40 songs. And even if you think, as I do, that no one could have sung “Tangled Up in Blue” better than Dylan, you have to admit, he’d have sounded horrible (and ridiculous) if he had to sing Celine Dion or Whitney Houston songs for the panel. I mean, even if Clay or Taylor or Fantasia were a great songwriter, we’d never know it, because performing your own material on “AI” isn’t an option. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/17 "2006-12-15T14:33:25Z")
The OP does had a bit of a point. Although most of the winners haven’t been gorgeous they were voted on by the American public on talent and likeability factor. Those that were mostly just pretty faces usually made it a little farther than they should but were usually gone by halfway through the eliminations. However, there is a process the singers have to go through before they get to the point of being judged by the American public and there may have been a few “unpretty” people left behind by the judges in favor of those with better images. [QUOTE=Excapno Mapcase] In fact, there was a big battle for the Dreamgirls role of the talented but overweight member of the group between Fantasia and Jennifer Hudson, two non-pretty Idols who have gone on to more success than the pretty things. [/QUOTE] I think Jennifer Hudson is pretty and the better singer of the two. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/18 "2006-12-15T16:09:47Z")
The Rolling Stones’ new tour is slated to be the highest-grossing ever and those guys look like death warmed over. But yeah, I guess if they had to start out now they might not get far. Carnie Wilson and company did have success even in the video world. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/19 "2006-12-15T16:44:16Z")
[QUOTE=Wile E] I think Jennifer Hudson is pretty and the better singer of the two. [/QUOTE] Whatever we think, there’s just no way that Hudson will ever be mistaken for a belly-button-baring, miniskirted pop tart. [Jennifer Hudson](http://www.theflickchicks.com/images/jennifer-hudson.jpg) [Paulina Rubio](http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/paulinarubio/paulina_rubio_1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178/20 "2006-12-15T16:51:32Z")
[QUOTE=koeeoaddi] Besides, young Ian was smokin’ hot – if you were into that whole shaggy, moccasin wearing, hippie-minstrel thing. [/QUOTE] A look that would not have played well on AI. They’ve turned people down for mode of dress before. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-pop-rock-acts-who-would-not-make-it-in-the-post-american-idol-music-scene/384178.md?page=2)