# Classic series that jumped the shark **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 20, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769 "2009-02-20T20:54:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/21 "2009-02-21T09:23:13Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > We’ll forget about the whole authorship problem, but two other points: > > It’s generally agreed that _The Iliad_ predates _The Odyssey_. Are you saying both are bad? > > Are you just saying _The Iliad_ is bad? Please give it another go if so. Book 2 is a drag (although it sounds good in the original), but the rest is fabulous. Try Robert Fitzgerald’s translation, or Christopher Logue’s retellings. > > Maybe I’ve misunderstood you, though. > > ETA In fact I think I have, and you were just making a joke! I’ll let this stand, though, just in case. Yes, I you got whooshed. Besides the fact that the earlier epics are gone (leaving aside authorship questions) I mainly wanted to use “jump the scylla”. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/22 "2009-02-21T10:58:31Z")
> [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](#): > > Everyone’s heard of _Tom Sawyer_ and _Huckleberry Finn_, but there are probably good reasons why _Tom Sawyer Abroad_ and _Tom Sawyer, Detective_ are less well-known. As I child of twelve, I loved both of them. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/23 "2009-02-21T13:34:36Z")
> [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](#): > > Everyone’s heard of _Tom Sawyer_ and _Huckleberry Finn_, but there are probably good reasons why _Tom Sawyer Abroad_ and _Tom Sawyer, Detective_ are less well-known. I think the difference is, “Huckleberry Finn” is a serious novel disguised as a kids’ book, whereas “Tom Sawyer, Detective” Really is a kids’ book. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/24 "2009-02-21T15:35:06Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > My memory is vague, but I think _All in the Family_ jumped after the arrival of little Joey. Either you paid very little attention to the OP or your grasp of arithmetic is akin to my grasp of string theory. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/25 "2009-02-21T16:16:20Z")
> [@](#): > > L Sprague was the model for Isaac Asimov’s Black Widowers character Geoffrey Avalon. Sheesh, everybody knows that. The “Who” doesn’t refer to de Camp – I figured people would know about him. It was referring to Johnny Black. To my utter astonishment **Voyager** clearly knows who Johnny was. Or looked him up. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/26 "2009-02-21T16:18:26Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Either you paid very little attention to the OP or your grasp of arithmetic is akin to my grasp of string theory. Did I miss something? The OP asked _Can anyone think of examples of series more than, say, eighty years old, that jumped the shark?_ And Fiddle responded with a classic series, over 8 years old (more like 40) that definitely jumped the shark. Where is the math error? Edited: Ah, my can’t read eight/eighty goods at all. Maybe I needs more skool. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/27 "2009-02-21T20:23:54Z")
The Scarlet Pimpernel books by Baroness Orczy definitely did some shark-jumping. But it’s been so long since I’ve read any but the first, I can’t remember where the bad stuff starts. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/28 "2009-02-21T20:41:33Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > The “Who” doesn’t refer to de Camp “The Who” _does_ refer to Tommy’s Holiday Camp, however. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/29 "2009-02-21T21:11:01Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The Scarlet Pimpernel books by Baroness Orczy definitely did some shark-jumping. But it’s been so long since I’ve read any but the first, I can’t remember where the bad stuff starts. You know, **jsg** , I almost posted that twice in this thread, but I couldn’t post that the original play and novel are classic with a straight face. I’ve only read _El Dorado_ besides _Scarlet Pimpernel_, too, so I couldn’t really say it ‘jumped the shark.’ Only that both were Edwardian pulp fiction. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/30 "2009-02-21T21:36:34Z")
> [@bup](#): > > You know, **jsg** , I almost posted that twice in this thread, but I couldn’t post that the original play and novel are classic with a straight face. > > I’ve only read _El Dorado_ besides _Scarlet Pimpernel_, too, so I couldn’t really say it ‘jumped the shark.’ Only that both were Edwardian pulp fiction. Of course they’re classic! They’re OLD! 😃 Really, though, I adore the original book. I love it far too much for sanity. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/31 "2009-02-22T01:06:07Z")
> [@MacSpon](#): > > I’ve been trying to decide if Gilbert & Sullivan jumped the shark, or if they just became less popular because of (a) changing fads and (b) the fact that they weren’t working well together any more. I suspect that their last couple of operettas are more or less unknown because of (b), rather than any particular shark-jumping, but I admit I’m not an expert on G&S. I’ve seen all of the Savoyard operettas – even _Thespis_ – and I can firmly say that the main reason that _Utopia, Ltd._ and _The Grand Duke_ are rarely performed and relatively unknown is that they are very weak operettas. Gilbert and Sullivan just didn’t have the teamwork anymore after their split, and when they made these last two operettas, it showed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/32 "2009-02-22T01:21:49Z")
If we’re going to be talking about the Trojan epics, the real shark-jumping was the _Aenead_. It’s basically just a retelling of the _Odyssey_, except this time, it’s **my** ancestor doing it, and he did it all better than **your** ancestor. If that counts as shark-jumping, and not just as fan-fic, at least. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/33 "2009-02-22T17:08:11Z")
> [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](#): > > Everyone’s heard of _Tom Sawyer_ and _Huckleberry Finn_, but there are probably good reasons why _Tom Sawyer Abroad_ and _Tom Sawyer, Detective_ are less well-known. I liked Tom Sawyer Abroad when I read it as a kid. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/34 "2009-02-22T17:10:40Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > But I did like the scenes where Archie was complaining about Warren G. Harding. > > _psst_ read the OP a bit more closely this time. 😃 Oops. I misread that as “eight.” I was thinking, how young is this guy, if he thinks eight year old shows are “classic”. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/35 "2009-02-23T13:29:54Z")
_Rosemary’s Baby_ was perfection. _Son of Rosemary_ was painful. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/36 "2009-02-23T13:54:52Z")
I read **Tom Sawyer, Abroad** and **Tom Sawyer, Detective** back in grad school, and thought they were alright. I heard **detective** recently on audio, though, and thought it as painfu. Between it and Twain’s other eforts to write a detective story, I’ve decided that Twain couldn’t write a mystery to save his life – he’d rather write humor and social commentary. I also read **Tom Sawyer Amonng the Indians** as a kid (It was published for the vfirst time in **Life** magazine, ages ago, and has been published in book form several times since), bu that shouldn’t count – he never finished it. Twain also started a story about Sawyer and Finn as old men, but he destroyed the manuscript. Looks like even their creator thought theyd Jumped the Shark. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/37 "2009-02-23T13:57:14Z")
I don’t think the\* Betsy-Tacy \*books were all that interesting after Betsy and the girls graduated from high school and Betsy married Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Jettboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jettboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jettboy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/38 "2009-02-23T14:37:37Z")
The timeless classic _“See Spot Run”_ was amazing. I was trembling inside as the book reached it’s dramatic climax. I’m sure I wasn’t alone with shedding a few tears as we all saw that Spot could, in fact, _run_. Wow! Does literature get any better?! The follow up _“Spot Can Run”_ was disappointing on almost every level. The series meandered along with _“Spot Runs Fast”_, but my interest was beginning to wane. The days of the author making bold choices, exploring uncharted literary waters, seemed to lose out to the desire to ‘play it safe’. Did Spot stop running? Was there a ball or a chew toy involved? These were questions that remained unanswered. We know the grass was _green_, but was it also _soft_? We’ll never know. When the new characters of Bill and Sue were introduced, the love affair with the series was definately at an end; the proverbial ‘shark’ had been jumped. By the time the author came out with _“Bill and Sue Run with Spot”_ I had already moved on to greener pastures and the edgy, intense literary firecracker of _“Sam and Ann Play Ball”_. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/39 "2009-02-23T14:52:06Z")
It’s not anywhere near a “classic”, but since we are talking about books, I think the most obvious series to jump the shark is the _Xanth_ series. It was never great literature, but it was great stuff to read. All of the great characters dissappreared really quickly though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2009, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769/40 "2009-02-23T14:52:31Z")
So will you allow for a 72 year old series? The Andy Hardy movie series had really jumped the shark despite it retaining its popularity after the last of the ones with Judy Garland. That was _Life Begins for Andy Hardy_ in 1941. There were 4 that followed it and 12 years later _Andy Hardy Comes Home_ (1958) Not that I really care, but I was trying to think of a pre-TV classic series that had a chance to jump the shark. I watch way too much TCM. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classic-series-that-jumped-the-shark/486769.md?page=3)