# Classical composer copyright question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 6, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535 "2013-10-06T22:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/1 "2013-10-06T22:29:36Z")
According to [this website](http://logosfoundation.org/copyleft/public_domain_composers.html) (among other sources), composers’ music enters the public domain 70 years after the composer died. Is this exactly 70 years from the composer’s exact death date, or just 70 years from the year that they died? For example, the composer Cécile Chaminade died on April 13, 1944. Will her music become public domain on January 1, 2014, or April 13, 2014? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/2 "2013-10-06T23:25:52Z")
[17 USC § 305 - Duration of copyright: Terminal date](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/305) > [@](#): > > All terms of copyright provided by sections 302 through 304 run to the end of the calendar year in which they would otherwise expire. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/3 "2013-10-06T23:37:57Z")
Does this mean I’d have to wait until 2015 if I want to do something with the music of a composer who died in 1944? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/4 "2013-10-06T23:39:15Z")
Let me add that the 70 year rule applies to works created on or after January 1, 1978. For any works that were still under copyright on 1/1/1978, it’s (umm…) more complicated. [17 USC § 304 - Duration of copyright: Subsisting copyrights](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/304) ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/5 "2013-10-06T23:42:32Z")
Looking at Chaminade’s[IMSLP page](http://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Chaminade,_C%C3%A9cile), it says that “Works by this person are most likely not public domain within the EU and in those countries where the copyright term is life+70 years. They may also be protected by copyright in the USA, unless published before 1923, in which case they are PD there as well. However, this person’s works are public domain in Canada (where IMSLP is hosted), and in other countries where the copyright term is life+50 years.” I’m wondering when Chaminade’s works will become public domain everywhere. I’m specifically interested in a piece of music published around 1886. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/6 "2013-10-06T23:54:23Z")
I just noticed you are from Montreal and I was quoting US law to you. My apologies. What I said would only apply in the US. I don’t know what the law is in countries where the life+70 rule applied before 1978. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/7 "2013-10-07T00:33:48Z")
I’m interested in the copyright laws everywhere, including the US. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/8 "2013-10-07T01:15:23Z")
I can’t think of a country in which an 1886 work is not in the public domain. The date of creation is the deciding factor in all copyright. Lots of individual countries use idiosyncratic copyright law. You’d have to be an international expert to know them all, or work through them one by one in Wikipedia. That said, I’d be amazed if there were an exception in this case. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/9 "2013-10-07T01:18:11Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I can’t think of a country in which an 1886 work is not in the public domain. The date of creation is the deciding factor in all copyright. > > Lots of individual countries use idiosyncratic copyright law. You’d have to be an international expert to know them all, or work through them one by one in Wikipedia. > > That said, I’d be amazed if there were an exception in this case. Would I have to not worry when the composer died, then, if I were to make an arrangement of an 1886 work and then try to sell it online? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/10 "2013-10-07T01:22:16Z")
IANAL, but I can’t see any possible illegality. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/11 "2013-10-07T01:37:09Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I can’t think of a country in which an 1886 work is not in the public domain. The date of creation is the deciding factor in all copyright. [The date of creation is not relevant in the US for works created since 1978](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/302) unless it is an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire. For all other works created since 1978, it is death of author plus 70 years. And the US was one of the last countries to establish a death-plus rule. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/12 "2013-10-07T01:53:18Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > [The date of creation is not relevant in the US for works created since 1978](http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/302) unless it is an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire. For all other works created since 1978, it is death of author plus 70 years. And the US was one of the last countries to establish a death-plus rule. You’re correct for modern-day works, of course. I meant copyright of all works created in that era. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/13 "2013-10-07T01:56:18Z")
I went to look up French law on the matter. Copyright term was life plus 50 starting in 1866. Thus a work from 1886 would be under copyright until 1995 (50 years after her death). Then it become problematic: 1995 was around the time copyright was being extended from life plus 50 to life plus 70. If the work was under copyright at the time the French law as extended, then the copyright ends on January 1, 2015. If the work had slid into public domain (and I’m inclined to think it has not), it’s been public domain since 1995. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/14 "2013-10-07T13:42:08Z")
Interesting. I thought I had read that life+ laws didn’t start until the 20th century. Thanks for checking. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/15 "2013-10-07T13:45:20Z")
So, I guess that if I want to upload or sell my music arrangement of this 1886 piece by a composer who died in April 1944, it’d be safest to wait until January 2015? I thank you all for trying to sort this out for me. I’m not very knowledgeable about copyright laws, and I’d have no idea where to even begin researching them. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/16 "2013-10-07T13:50:55Z")
Best advice is to consult an actual lawyer that specialises in Intellectual Property. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/17 "2013-10-07T14:40:13Z")
> [@EmilyG](#): > > Does this mean I’d have to wait until 2015 if I want to do something with the music of a composer who died in 1944? With Chaminade, your question is particularly pointed and poignant. An old Jew on her deathbed, bed-ridden for 10 years, her royalties were seized by the Germans. The Germans also had terminated her publisher, so in fact the issue was moot. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-composer-copyright-question/670535/18 "2013-10-07T14:48:55Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > With Chaminade, your question is particularly pointed and poignant. > > An old Jew on her deathbed, bed-ridden for 10 years, her royalties were seized by the Germans. The Germans also had terminated her publisher, so in fact the issue was moot. Wow, I wasn’t aware of that. That’s sad.