# Classical Music and Opera lovers in here please **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 20, 2001, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457 "2001-11-20T19:56:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/21 "2001-11-22T03:29:33Z")
I’ll plug my favorites (many are in the “Basic Repertoire”). Ravel[ul][_]Orchestral[list][_] the ballet “Daphnis and Chloe”. Also available in 2 suites. The 2nd suite is a **must listen** , especially the “sunrise” section at the very beginning.[_]Rapsodie espagnole[/ul][_]Piano[ul][_]Pavane pour une infante défunte[_]Ma Mere l’Oye (piano duo)[_]Valses nobles et sentimetales[_]Miroirs[/ul][/list]Debussy[ul][_]Orchestral[list][_]Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun[_]Nocturnes[_]La Mer[/ul][_]Piano[ul][_]Clair de lune[_]Preludes books I and II[_]Images I and II[_]La plus que lente[_]many others[/ul][/list]Holst: in addition to pieces already given, “Hymns from the Rig Veda” (2nd and 3rd group), examples of the Eastern influence mentioned by Steve Wright. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Nice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@D\_Nice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Nice)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/22 "2001-11-22T03:34:50Z")
wow 20 posts and no one has picked up my favourite composser. I’m a huge fan of Sergei Rachmaninov. Check out some of his works. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/23 "2001-11-22T04:08:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TroubleAgain \* > \*\*I also really like Vivaldi, preferring choral music over the non-choral orchestral stuff. Vivaldi’s _Gloria_ in particular is near to my heart, especially as I’ve sung it many times. > \*\* I love Vivaldi’s _Gloria,_ though I’m not normally a huge Vivaldi fan – and I really enjoyed singing it, even if I got passed over for the “Domine Deus, Agnus Dei” solo after what I thought was a spectacularly good audition… 😛 I’m a big fan of giant choral works, anyway – I’m shocked and appalled that nobody’s mentioned _Messiah_ yet, or (at the other end of the spectrum) _Carmina Burana._ Neither of which I’ve had a chance to sing, alas. _looks at thread_ Oh, someone mentioned _Carmina Burana_…my bad. Also, there’s the Verdi Requiem, and the Brahms German Requiem…and I’m very fond of Mahler’s Third Symphony with the nifty women’s chorus bit, because I sang in it a few years ago. And as far as non-choral stuff goes, _The Rite of Spring_ rocks my world. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/24 "2001-11-22T04:09:58Z")
**rowrrbazzle** Clair de lune, yeah I really like this little peice too. I also have a version for violin played by Heiftz that is wonderful. I would recommend getting compilations by well know players like **Heifitz** , **Stern** , **Gould** etc… . They will have lots of nice peices by different composers. Hey, if it’s good enough for these folks … I also like **Benjamin Britten** ---
**Author:** ![Frannie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Frannie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frannie)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/25 "2001-11-22T06:17:30Z")
The only opera with which I feel familiar is the one that my second grade students created and produced last year. They did so with the help of the Cleveland Opera, and they will remember it forever. It was truly a GEM! (We’ll be working with the Cleveland Opera again this year, but my virgin outing will always be very special.) Okie Dokie, for those of you who are on the edge of their seats, here’s the libretto for “The Dragon’s Revenge”: _ **The Dragon’s Revenge** _ Scene 1 “The Dragon Is Coming” Guards: The dragon is coming The dragon is coming. Queen: The dragon is coming, King, we’re in danger. Princess: Help! Help! Please save us. Servants: We must call the knights. Everyone Except Knights: Knights! Knights! The dragon is coming! Knights: Let’s gather our weapons, And put on our armor. We’ve run out of time! King: The dragon is here! Scene 2 “The Dragon’s Song” Dragon: I want my baby back I really want my baby back. If you stole my baby I’ll get you for that. I’m hungry! I’m mad! I hope I’m not too late. If my baby’s not alright That king is toast. Scene 3 “Knights and Dragon” Knight: What do you want? Dragon: I heard my baby yelling. I want him back. Knight: Your baby’s our pet. He followed us back to the castle. Dragon: I didn’t know my baby followed you. Knight: He was curious to see what was going on. Dragon: I want my baby back no matter what. I will burn down the castle If you don’t give him back. Knights: I hope we have a fire extinguisher! Dragon: Let me talk to him. Knight: No! Dragon: Don’t make me call my husband! Knight: What? You have a cell phone? Dragon: I do! Scene 4 “In the Castle During the Fight” Queen: That looks like a bad fight. Guards: What are we going to do? Servants: Send more knights out. King: Sorry; we have no more knights. Princess: Daddy; go get your armor on and go out and fight for me. Servants: Do you have any armor for us? King: I have a few more sets of armor. Servants: Let’s join the fight. Guards: Should we lock the doors? Princess: I don’t think locking the doors will do any good. Queen: Let’s go hide in the cellar. Guards: Should we get the fire extinguisher now? Scene 5 “After the Fight” Princess: Daddy, what happened? King: They had a bad fight. Princess: Someone call 9-11. King: Let’s use the dragon’s cell phone. Dragon: I’ll give you my cell phone if you give my baby back. King: That’s a deal. Princess: I’ll go get the baby. Baby: I want my mommy! Dragon: Mommy’s here. Dragon: I have my baby back. I finally have my baby back Servants: We missed the fight. Queen: Are you alright, dear? King: Now we can call the ambulance. Princess: I don’t think we need the fire extinguisher. Guards: We’re saved! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/26 "2001-11-22T11:27:45Z")
**Frannie** , that’s quite clever! And it reminds me of a recent revival of an obscure 18th century comic opera called [_The Dragon of Wantley_](http://members.xoom.it/Senesino/wantley.html), written by John Frederick Lampe, who IIRC was Handel’s bassoonist and who made a large heap of money off this little burlesque. (While looking up the composer’s name, which I couldn’t remember, I came across [this poem](http://www.sheffieldscene.co.uk/dragonfayre/thetale.html), which may amuse you.) At the risk of spoiling the ending, the dragon is killed by a stout kick in the ass. Back to the OP… Prokofiev is mentioned briefly above, and I’ll just mention _Alexander Nevsky_ and _Romeo and Juliet_ (not as mushy as Tchaikovsky’s version) as particular works you may enjoy. Beethoven, Brahms, and Mozart all wrote good symphonies, but you knew that already. Other orchestral stuff not previously mentioned: for something old, try symphonies by Johann Stamitz; for something new, try _Cantus Arcticus_ by Einojuhani Rautavaara. For operas to start out with, you can’t go too far wrong with Mozart’s late operas (_Don Giovanni, The Marriage of Figaro_, and _The Magic Flute_) or Rossini’s comic output (_The Barber of Seville_, _The Journey to Rheims_, etc.). I’m partial to Handel operas – _Semele, Julius Caesar, Xerxes_ – but I realize that these can be boring if you’re not really into 18th century music. I love organ music (Bach, Franck, even Messaien), but only performed live. IMHO organ music has a strong visceral component; if you can’t feel the 16-foot pipes vibrating your innards, you’re missing a big part of the experience, and you just can’t get that from recordings. I’d sit in the pipe ranks if they’d let me. 🙂 Choral music: I’m always happy to push Edward Elgar’s _The Dream of Gerontius_ and William Walton’s _Belshazzar’s Feast_ as choral works that needs more airing, especially outside of England. Ditto Vaughan Williams’ _Sea Symphony_ (which, despite the name, is also a choral work of the lush, sweeping variety). Benjamin Britten’s _War Requiem_ is a bit more challenging for someone just starting to venture outside the “pop classical” pieces, but it’s worth knowing – the interpolation of Wilfred Owens’s poetry in the Requiem Mass text is intensely moving. I also recommend a lesser-known Britten war-related work, _Ballad of Heroes_, although I don’t know what recordings of that are available. Chamber music: My tastes (and recommendations) here are pretty eclectic: try Messiaen’s _Quartet for the End of Time_, Arthur Foote’s _Night Piece_ for string quartet and flute, Schubert’s String Quintet in C Major, Beethoven’s Suites for Cello and Piano, and of course the Bach Cello Suites (recorded by just about everybody, and never the same way twice). I think that’s enough for now. (Oh, and it’s “Hildegard von **Bingen** ”. I recommend the “Feather on the Breath of God” recording.) ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/27 "2001-11-22T16:44:17Z")
Ooh, we likes _The Dream of Gerontius,_ preciousssss! Britten’s _War Requiem_ is on my short list of Stuff To Purchase ASAP. And I know what you mean about organ music – it’s wonderful live, but recorded organ music is rather dull, actually… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/28 "2001-11-22T16:56:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Katisha \* > Ooh, we likes _The Dream of Gerontius,_ preciousssss! Is that a deep, hideous purring I hear? 😉 > [@](#): > > Britten’s _War Requiem_ is on my short list of Stuff To Purchase ASAP. I have the Britten/Pears/Fischer-Dieskau/Vishneskaya (sp?) version – black cover, white letters – and I really like it. It also has recorded excerpts of Britten conducting some of the rehearsals tacked on at the end, which is interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/29 "2001-11-22T17:16:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > **I love organ music (Bach, Franck, even Messaien), but only performed live. IMHO organ music has a strong visceral component; if you can’t feel the 16-foot pipes vibrating your innards, you’re missing a big part of the experience, and you just can’t get that from recordings.** You just need to get bigger speakers. Like those window-rattling, rap-playing car stereos the kids have nowadays. 😃 But back to the subject at hand, no one has really expanded on the earlier Romantic composers yet (BTW, I think that’s a terrible name because it makes people think the music is ooey and gushy, which isn’t always the case).[ul][li]Mendelssohn - Symphonies 3 & 4 have been mentioned. I’ll add _A Midsummer Night’s Dream_, full of Mendelssohn’s trademark elfin lightness. His _Octet_ is very nice. His early string symphonies are good also.[/li][li]Schubert - the “Trout” Quintet. Symphonies 5 and 9 (and, oh yeah, the 8th, “Unfinished”).[/li][li]Schumann - His 4 symphonies. Piano Concerto.[/li][\*]Berlioz - _Symphonie Fantastique_.[/ul]Hm, my mind is drawing a blank now, so I’ll stop here for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/30 "2001-11-22T18:06:17Z")
Ok many mentioned Ravel, nobody I think mentioned Bolero. I like it and it is very popular. From Britten a young’s person guide to orchestra. and now some compositions I really love: Borodin: “In the steppes of central asia” Saint Saens “The carnival from the animals”, “Danse macabre” Albinoni: “Adagio” Barber: “adagio” Mussorgsky “pictures of an exibition”, “a night on the bare mountain” I forgot Rachmanicoff, “Rhapsody on a Theme by paganini” and specially piano concert 2. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/31 "2001-11-22T18:13:34Z")
Other than Dvorak, you guys are missing the Czech Contingent, especially Smetana and Janacek. For opera lovers, you simply must check out **Jenufa** and **The Makropoulos Case**. And for a Wagner-inspired tale of grandeur with magnificent music, don’t miss out on the rarely-performed **Dalibor**. MR ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/32 "2001-11-22T18:16:46Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by Earthling \* \*\* [li]Richard Strauss - Ein Heldenleben \*\*[/li][/QUOTE] Someone told Strauss, “Herr Strauss, that is the most beautiful thing I ever heard!” and he responded, “Yes, I know.” ---
**Author:** ![phartizan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba8739/32.png) [@phartizan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phartizan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/33 "2001-11-23T02:40:33Z")
I second music by Mendelssohn (symphonies, double piano concerto) and Schubert (I like the latter’s trios), and Schumann, particularly his piano quartet & quintet. Brahm’s piano concerto (um, is there more than one?), Hummel’s piano concerti 2 & 3, all 5 of Saint-saen’s piano concerti, and chamber music by Chausson (trio) & Franck (piano quintet). Vocal music, I mostly like choral: Mozart’s requiem, & Cherubini’s, and a work by Brahms–something like the Shicksalied. And I just discovered & fell in love with Gounod’s Ave Maria, only to find out the cogniscenti feel it’s overly sentimental. And didn’t they play that on NYPD Blue at the funeral? ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/34 "2001-11-23T04:16:04Z")
Some additions. Gerhshwin: Rhapsody in Blue, Cuban Overture, many others including his musicals. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by phartizan \* > And I just discovered & fell in love with Gounod’s Ave Maria, only to find out the cogniscenti feel it’s overly sentimental. And didn’t they play that on NYPD Blue at the funeral? The other objection of the cognoscenti is that Gounod only wrote the melody. The accompaniment is the first prelude from Book 1 of Bach’s “Well-Tempered Clavier” (usually transposed from C to a more singable key). ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/35 "2001-11-23T04:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Maeglin \* > **Other than Dvorak, you guys are missing the Czech Contingent, especially Smetana and Janacek.** Yeah! Go, Janacek! GLAGOLITIC MASS…GLAGOLITIC MASS…GLAGOLITIC MASS!!! I love the Glagolitic Mass. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/36 "2001-11-23T10:35:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rowrrbazzle \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by phartizan \* > > And I just discovered & fell in love with Gounod’s Ave Maria, only to find out the cogniscenti feel it’s overly sentimental. And didn’t they play that on NYPD Blue at the funeral? > > The other objection of the cognoscenti is that Gounod only wrote the melody. The accompaniment is the first prelude from Book 1 of Bach’s “Well-Tempered Clavier” (usually transposed from C to a more singable key). \*\* Bollocks (that’s “bollocks” to the cognoscenti, not you two). The same cognoscenti seem to have no trouble with Schubert’s infinitely more sentimental _Ave Maria_, nor with Arvo Part’s borrowing (and hacking up of) the same Bach prelude for his _Credo_. What a bunch of hypocrites such people are. On another subject, I too like Janacek but am less rabidly enthusiastic about the Glagolitic Mass; I would, however, add his **Sinfonietta** to the list of recommended works. ---
**Author:** ![phartizan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba8739/32.png) [@phartizan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phartizan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/37 "2001-11-23T14:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Forbin \* > **Russian sensibilities regarding the bass voice are vastly different from the Italians.** Any recommendations for Russian choral music? I love the chorus in Tchaikovsky’s 1812, but don’t know where to look for other stuff. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Earthling \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by jr8 \* > > **I love organ music (Bach, Franck, even Messaien), but only performed live. IMHO organ music has a strong visceral component; if you can’t feel the 16-foot pipes vibrating your innards, you’re missing a big part of the experience, and you just can’t get that from recordings.** > > You just need to get bigger speakers. Like those window-rattling, rap-playing car stereos the kids have nowadays. 😃 > \*\* Putting the cogniscenti noses further out of joint: for those who want LOUD classical music, there are albums like: Lease Breakers Head Bangin’ Classix Heavy Classics I notice several of our favorites appear on such recordings. ---
**Author:** ![Earthling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@Earthling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthling)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/38 "2001-11-23T16:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by phartizan \* > **Any recommendations for Russian choral music? I love the chorus in Tchaikovsky’s 1812, but don’t know where to look for other stuff.** Here’s another Tchaikovsky for ya: _Pique Dame_ (The Queen of Spades), his last full-length opera. And regarding your earlier question on Brahms - he wrote two piano concertos. While we’re on a Central/Eastern European kick, I should also mention Bela Bartok’s _Concerto for Orchestra_ and Henryk Wieniawski’s violin concertos. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/39 "2001-11-26T09:49:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by phartizan \* > Any recommendations for Russian choral music? I love the chorus in Tchaikovsky’s 1812, but don’t know where to look for other stuff. You need look no further than the Rachmaninov section of your local record store – try his Vespers especially. I once heard a recording of Russian music featuring “Oktavists”, those bass voices so low that they’re singing an octave below your average bass. It’s an astounding sound, although a whole CD of exclusively Oktavist music gets to be a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2001, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457/40 "2001-11-26T12:57:38Z")
On the subject of Russian vocals: I once had a cd by the **Russian Red Army Chorus** that had some neat songs especially “Volga Boatmen’s Song”. But these are more folk and military. For solo try **Dmitri Hvorostovsky - Songs and Dances of Death**. This is a selection of composers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-and-opera-lovers-in-here-please/94457.md?page=3)