# Classical music haters: Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957 "2019-08-20T20:19:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/121 "2019-08-22T14:33:47Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > What about the minuet? The waltz? The polonaise/polska? Flamenco? > > ~Max Flamenco is classical music? 😕 Which anyway brings up something else: “classical music” is a very wide range. I suspect whomever first came up with that idea of indicating notes as dots on a set of lines would have been extremely surprised if he could hear Horst’s Planets. It certainly isn’t something I’d be wanting to listen to during breakfast when my brain is still half awake but then, neither is AserejĂ©. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/122 "2019-08-22T14:47:37Z")
**Saintly Loser @117:** “The Met, in NYC, is pretentious.” Hey! They’re giving us **Porgy and Bess** next month! You callin’ my boy Georgie “pretentious?” And the last time I attended was for **Parsifal.**. The cast did the entire second act ankle-deep in the blood covering the stage. Cool beans! ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/123 "2019-08-22T15:02:24Z")
Why does classical music always have the same instruments and structure? As if through out time, only violins, cellos and flutes existed. Where are the jams Richard the Lion-Hearted grooved too? Why isn’t Platos favorite song considered classical? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/124 "2019-08-22T15:36:07Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m not talking about things like biographical background on the composer. I’m talking about the content of the music itself beyond its strictly emotional appeal. Things like the structure, the “plot,” the development (as **Les Espaces Du Sommeil** discussed in [Post 40](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21817628&postcount=40)), the way the music conforms to or defies the expectations it builds up in the listener. I’m primarily interested in \*what \*the music does to me, not \*how \*it does it. All the aspects you mention are open to study and analysis, as would be the ingredients of a fine meal or the aromatics given off by a fine wine but knowing more about them doesn’t make it taste any better to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/125 "2019-08-22T15:48:59Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > All the aspects you mention are open to study and analysis, as would be the ingredients of a fine meal or the aromatics given off by a fine wine but knowing more about them doesn’t make it taste any better to me. Um. Please don’t take this the wrong way. Why do you then like hanging around a message board devoted to fighting ignorance? If you acknowledge that knowing more about an art or science or whatever would increase enjoyment, why state proudly that you prefer not to learn? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/126 "2019-08-22T15:54:48Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > If you acknowledge that knowing more about an art or science or whatever would increase enjoyment, why state proudly that you prefer not to learn? I think you’ve misread me. I say that knowing more about the music _has not_ increased my enjoyment of it. And I am a scientist. My job actually demands that I explore and understand complex situations in order to develop understanding and solutions. Knowledge and learning is a wonderful thing. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/127 "2019-08-22T16:10:02Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’m primarily interested in \*what \*the music does to me, not \*how \*it does it. > > All the aspects you mention are open to study and analysis, as would be the ingredients of a fine meal or the aromatics given off by a fine wine but knowing more about them doesn’t make it taste any better to me. Some people do experience things differently when they know how the different parts interact to create the whole. Some do not. If you appreciate music _form_, and take the time to study it, the difference when listening is that you think to yourself, that’s neat how they transitioned from this to that, I like how this instrument in this movement reminds me of X, this is an unusual scale with a haunted theme, etcetera. It is like identifying with lyrics or being awed by vocal range versus simply liking the sound of the singer’s voice. It is the same difference between saying you like music, and being able to point out which specific series of sounds you appreciate. For some people, the ability to identify what _exactly_ you like about something, or to appreciate the inner workings of a thing, in fact heighten the experience. I am not saying that learning music theory is necessary or even that it makes listening better. This is all subjective. Different people like different things, for example I am perfectly happy appreciating automobiles without any want or will to understand all of the inner workings. I love pretty cars, but I’m no car lover. Some people call that ignorance, but they’re snoots. I think it’s bliss. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/128 "2019-08-22T16:19:39Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Some people do experience things differently when they know how the different parts interact to create the whole. Some do not. > > If you appreciate music _form_, and take the time to study it, the difference when listening is that you think to yourself, that’s neat how they transitioned from this to that, I like how this instrument in this movement reminds me of X, this is an unusual scale with a haunted theme, etcetera. It is like identifying with lyrics or being awed by vocal range versus simply liking the sound of the singer’s voice. It is the same difference between saying you like music, and being able to point out which specific series of sounds you appreciate. For some people, the ability to identify what _exactly_ you like about something, or to appreciate the inner workings of a thing, in fact heighten the experience. Which is all fine, it may well heighten the experience that they personally would otherwise have had but I don’t think it means they extract any \*greater \*enjoyment overall than the person who does none of that. Nor is one approach in any way “superior” to the other or evidence of greater intellect. It was phrasing that suggested as much that I originally objected to. ---
**Author:** ![Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/les_espaces_du_sommeil/32/308_2.png) [@Les\_Espaces\_Du\_Sommeil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Les_Espaces_Du_Sommeil)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/129 "2019-08-22T16:20:33Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Why does classical music always have the same instruments and structure? As if through out time, only violins, cellos and flutes existed. > > Where are the jams Richard the Lion-Hearted grooved too? Why isn’t Platos favorite song considered classical? I take it you’re not familiar with [Historically Informed Performance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historically_informed_performance). ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/130 "2019-08-22T16:44:14Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Why does classical music always have the same instruments and structure? As if through out time, only violins, cellos and flutes existed. It doesn’t. Different ensembles used different instrumentation. Chamber music (say, a string quartet) is still classical music. And even the full symphony orchestra evolved between the Baroque and Romantic periods as instrument technology advanced. The clarinet, for example, did not really exist before 1700, and only was adopted as a standard orchestral instrument in Beethoven’s time. > [@](#): > > Where are the jams Richard the Lion-Hearted grooved too? Why isn’t Platos favorite song considered classical? Musical notation was an innovation of the Middle Ages, so we have little record of what music Ancient Greeks listened to. But music that’s “considered classical” has always been “art” music – ballads and other “popular” tunes such as would be played by wandering minstrels is old, but not usually considered “classical”. Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/131 "2019-08-22T17:09:46Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Give me a good old Sousa march that I can tap my toes to! How about a good old [Beethoven march](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmaN_741m_k)? [Michael Haydn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7wx8T2WQv4)? [Strauss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0RfeMqHxdY)? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/132 "2019-08-22T17:49:18Z")
Is classical music, just orchestral music that hasn’t reached a certain age yet? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/133 "2019-08-22T17:54:12Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > It doesn’t. Different ensembles used different instrumentation. Chamber music (say, a string quartet) is still classical music. > > And even the full symphony orchestra evolved between the Baroque and Romantic periods as instrument technology advanced. The clarinet, for example, did not really exist before 1700, and only was adopted as a standard orchestral instrument in Beethoven’s time. There’s also polyphonic choral music, with usually 4-8 different voice parts and perhaps an organ. There were many great 16th and 17th century composers of polyphonic music such as Palestrina, Monteverdi, Allegri, Gabrieli, Lotti, Victoria, Tallis, Gibbons, Byrd, etc. Some of Bach’s choral work. Composers have never really stopped composing music like this, mainly sacred music, and some contemporary classical composers still continue to do so. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/134 "2019-08-22T18:00:02Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Is classical music, just orchestral music that hasn’t reached a certain age yet? No, it has nothing to do with age. There are many contemporary classical composers. And classical music isn’t only orchestral music, it includes chamber music, opera, and choral music. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/135 "2019-08-22T18:03:13Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Hmm - Patsy Cline? Emmylou Harris? Johnny Cash? 
 😉 Rats. You picked the few I actually like. 😃 And I have an unreasonable fondness for the song _El Paso_. Re: opera. I saw an old movie when I was a kid where Lily Pons sang The Bell Song from _Lakme_. It gave me shivers
I loved it so much. I must admit I often prefer some isolated arias vs. the entire opera, but I don’t hate opera. Got to see a beautifully sung staging of _Turandot_ at the L.A. Music Center at least ten years ago. Weird staging and costuming though. I leaned over to my companion to say that Calaf looked like John Travolta in _Battlefield Earth_. He laughed and said the woman next to him just told her husband that he looked like a Klingon. Who doesn’t love _Nessun Dorma_? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/136 "2019-08-22T18:06:14Z")
**@Novelty Bobble** - If you know more about the internal structure of a piece of music, you hear more. And if you hear more, you enjoy more. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/137 "2019-08-22T18:16:29Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > **@Novelty Bobble** - If you know more about the internal structure of a piece of music, you hear more. And if you hear more, you enjoy more. I hear all the audible sounds that are available, same as you do. The analysis of the music may give you pleasure but it is purely a subjective claim that you make for you yourself and no further. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/138 "2019-08-22T18:27:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I hear all the audible sounds that are available, same as you do. > > The analysis of the music may give you pleasure but it is purely a subjective claim that you make for you yourself and no further. I think you’re either deluding yourself, or arguing for the sake of arguing. But I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/139 "2019-08-22T18:49:01Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > I think you’re either deluding yourself, or arguing for the sake of arguing. But I’ll leave it at that. Either that or perhaps you are simply unable to accept that some people experience art in different ways to you, that people can indeed gain their maximum enjoyment from music without the need to analyse it deeply? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957/140 "2019-08-22T19:34:43Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Rats. You picked the few I actually like. 😃 
 Yeah - I doubt any reasonably intelligent person with a relatively open mind could reject an entire category of music. (Of course, there is the added difficulty of “categorizing” artists.) Hell, in the right mood and setting, I can imagine the right opera - or even rap - impressing me positively. But I can safely say the majority of those types of music that I have heard do not appeal to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-music-haters-why/838957.md?page=8)