# Classical musical works where the famous bit isn't the best bit **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 9, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589 "2013-06-09T22:56:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/1 "2013-06-09T22:56:27Z")
There are many works where only short excerpts or perhaps single movements, e.g. Charpentier’s _Te Deum_ where it’s the Prelude that’s typically played, or Beethoven’s _9th Symphony_ where it’s the 4th movement that’s typically played. This has been exacerbated IMO by the likes of Classic FM. But it seems to me that quite often the excerpt played is not the best bit. For instance, in Charpentier’s _Te Deum_, ‘Te aeternum Patrem’, ‘Tu devicto mortis aculeo’, and ‘In te, Domine, speravi’ are IMO even better. The whole thing is well worth listening to. Part one is [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztZJwDCaS8) and part two [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUgHJETLw-4). When they play Handel’s _Messiah_, they trot out the Hallelujah Chorus, but what about ‘[For Unto Us a Child Is Born](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAW7kcEb6LE)’? Of course, the whole thing is sublime from start to finish… Then there’s the William Tell Overture where they cut to the Lone Ranger tune. And so on Give me your examples! ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/2 "2013-06-09T23:04:48Z")
OK, here’s one. I saw _La Traviata_ recently, at the Met in New York. The famous bit is Violetta’s first act aria, _Sempre libera_. And it is wonderful. But in the second act, the duet between Violetta and Giorgo, _Dite alla giovine sì bella e pura_, is spectacularly beautiful. It’s heartbreaking, and it’s the key to both characters. I had the good fortune to see it sung by two great singers, Diana Damrau and Placido Domingo, who’s moved to smaller, lower-pitched roles in this stage of his career. He was absolutely magnificent. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/3 "2013-06-09T23:51:20Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > But in the second act, the duet between Violetta and Giorgo, _Dite alla giovine sì bella e pura_, is spectacularly beautiful. It’s heartbreaking, and it’s the key to both characters. > > I had the good fortune to see it sung by two great singers, Diana Damrau and Placido Domingo, who’s moved to smaller, lower-pitched roles in this stage of his career. He was absolutely magnificent. Recorded [here](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIclseLWGyc). ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/4 "2013-06-10T00:28:16Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Then there’s the William Tell Overture where they cut to the Lone Ranger tune. And so on > > Give me your examples! William Tell was what immediately sprang to mind. Followed closely by the 1812 Overture. There is a sublimely beautiful part that isn’t played nearly as often as the “shot from guns” part. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/5 "2013-06-10T00:57:14Z")
Many of the pieces in Orff’s Carmina Burana are every bit as good as the big thundering opening (and closing) “O Fortuna” that has become so well known. (And how many people who love that work even know about the Catulli Carmina or Trionfo di Aphrodite?) In more recent classics, there are LOTS of bits in The Threepenny Opera that are much better than “Mack the Knife.” ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/6 "2013-06-10T01:25:29Z")
The most famous part in the opera “The Marriage of Figaro” is probably the “sull’ aria”. This is the bit Andy Dufresne plays to the prison yard in “Shawshank Redemption.” In the opera, the aria is a short and quite minor bit of the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/7 "2013-06-10T04:58:47Z")
From Beethoven’s 5th, only the opening motive is pretty famous, with the whole movement a distant 2nd, and the other movements barely register. But of course, the work as a whole packs the punch, not the motive in itself. From Manuel de Falla’s ballet El Amor Brujo, the Ritual fire dance gets the attention (and inclusion in CD compilations), but I like the Pantomime piece much more. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/8 "2013-06-10T05:30:39Z")
> [@II\_Gyan\_II](#): > > From Beethoven’s 5th, only the opening motive is pretty famous, with the whole movement a distant 2nd, and the other movements barely register. But of course, the work as a whole packs the punch, not the motive in itself. > > (…) This is what I came in to say. Specifically, I find the [fourth movement](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tswown6lsxU)\* infinitely more uplifting and, well, moving than the first, but it’s seldom if ever mentioned. (Semi-interesting sidenote: if you listen closely, you can hear that the damned four-note motif is still running things.) \*Since there’s no clean break between the third and fourth movements, the clip begins at the end of the third movement. The fourth starts at about 1:20. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/9 "2013-06-10T07:28:24Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Many of the pieces in Orff’s Carmina Burana are every bit as good as the big thundering opening (and closing) “O Fortuna” that has become so well known. > [@OttoDaFe](#): > > This is what I came in to say. Specifically, I find the [fourth movement](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tswown6lsxU)\* infinitely more uplifting and, well, moving than the first, but it’s seldom if ever mentioned. Just the two I was coming in to suggest…and delighted to be beaten to it! (And I really need to pick up Catulli Carmina and Trionfo di Aphrodite, now.) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/10 "2013-06-10T11:27:47Z")
Richard Strauss’ \*Also Sprach Zarathustra. \*There are several parts of it that are better than the intro. Most people don’t even know the rest of it exists. And then there’s \*Carmen. \*There are quite a few arias (e.g. the _habanera, La fleur que tu m’avais jetée_) better then the famous “Toreador Song.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/11 "2013-06-10T11:53:03Z")
Bach’s _Tocatta and Fugue in D-Minor_. The [famous intro](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o) is heard constantly, but the [fugue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o&t=2m50s) is a kajillion times better. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/12 "2013-06-10T16:54:55Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Bach’s _Tocatta and Fugue in D-Minor_. The [famous intro](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o) is heard constantly, but the [fugue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipzR9bhei_o&t=2m50s) is a kajillion times better. Well, it’s _someone’s_ Tocatta and Fugue in D minor, but probably not Bach’s. It was likely someone else who wrote it, and Bach just made a personal copy. (Which is what you did back in the day.) ---
**Author:** ![Labor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Labor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/13 "2013-06-10T17:10:47Z")
Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata. Since the 1st movement is slow just about any competent pianist can play it. The 2nd movement is a bit trickier. But, the 3rd movment is best and it just rocks and rolls. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/14 "2013-06-10T18:11:46Z")
> [@Labor](#): > > Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata. Since the 1st movement is slow just about any competent pianist can play it. The 2nd movement is a bit trickier. But, the 3rd movment is best and it just rocks and rolls. _Exactly_ what I was going to post. I’ve never cared for the first movement, but the 2nd and 3rd parts are among my favorite classical pieces ever. I particularly like Glenn Gould’s take on them- IMO he makes that third movement boil with explosive rage and angst. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/15 "2013-06-10T18:15:29Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Well, it’s _someone’s_ Tocatta and Fugue in D minor, but probably not Bach’s. It was likely someone else who wrote it, and Bach just made a personal copy. (Which is what you did back in the day.) Cite, please? Because I love JSB’s fugues (organ and harpsichord/clavichord), but the D-minor has always underwhelmed me, never seemed to measure up to the others. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/16 "2013-06-10T18:58:50Z")
Wrong post. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/17 "2013-06-10T18:59:56Z")
> [@Labor](#): > > Beethoven’s Moonlight Sonata. Since the 1st movement is slow just about any competent pianist can play it. The 2nd movement is a bit trickier. But, the 3rd movment is best and it just rocks and rolls. This is what I meant to respond to with “beat me to it.” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/18 "2013-06-10T22:36:00Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > . . . (And I really need to pick up Catulli Carmina and Trionfo di Aphrodite, now.) Fair warning: Catulli Carmina is, in my opinion, every bit as good as Carmina Burana. It’s set in Rome, and takes verses from Catullus. A local classical music D.J. once said, “If Roman music didn’t sound like this…it should have.” It is, however, Orff, which means avant garde, experimental, quirky, and highly individual. Also, the verses (sure, they’re in Latin) are kinda explicit… Trionfo di Aphrodite, in my opinion, is the least of the three. Weaker than the others, and lacking the cohesion. Still fun, but…well…not as good as the others. Let us know (or PM me!) when you’ve heard either or both; I’d adore to hear your opinion! [ETA; Here’s a YouTube version of the opening chorus!](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0xXGzeQaWw) ETA: Oops, NSFW. Classical nudity. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/19 "2013-06-13T01:50:06Z")
I was going to say Beethoven’s fifth symphony as well, but also the seventh and the ninth. for some reason I always seem to hear the 2nd movement of the seventh, and it’s easily the slowest and most depressing of all of them. For the nith, we usually get the choral part, or the one they used ages ago to close NBC news, but I think the other parts are better. If they play the sixth, they play most of it, so that doesn’t fit the thread. The other symphonies aren’t really played enough, and I doubt if the average person could identify them. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589/20 "2013-06-13T04:46:37Z")
**CalMeacham** : Agreed: Beethoven’s 4th and 8th symphonies are wonderful, and so rarely heard. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classical-musical-works-where-the-famous-bit-isnt-the-best-bit/660589.md?page=2)