FWIW:
reporting is that the documents in pence’s house were pages that were tucked into oversea trip binders. the information that was classified was related to the trip.
that is an easy mistake to make when packing up a desk or shelf.
From your cite:
The Associated Press, citing an anonymous source, reported that Carter found classified materials at his home in Plains, Georgia, on at least one occasion and returned them to the National Archives, which manages the Carter library. “The Carter Center cannot confirm that,” a spokesperson said. A spokesperson for the library did not respond.
What Clinton, Obama, and Bush say may very well be true. But six months ago, both Biden and Pence would have assured everyone that they didn’t have any classified documents, and have been extremely offended if you doubted them.
It’s the system that’s at fault. We can’t take the word of people who depend on other people who depend on other people to get it right.
I seriously doubt Trump supporters will see any nuance in the differences. They will say Biden had documents and Trump had documents. Same thing. But Biden doesn’t get in trouble and Trump does. Therefore, there is a deep-state conspiracy against Trump.
You are probably right. Altho the swing voters may be able to detect the differences. It’s not going to be about reaching TFG’s supporters to change their minds. They are too far gone. It’s the soft middle we need to work on - those that can be persuaded.
Something that’s occurred to me while following all of these classified documents cases that I haven’t seen pointed out enough yet. In the cases of Biden and now Pence, it’s been assumed that the documents were taken accidentally while offices and whatnot were being packed up. That’s totally believable because these documents are being found in small amounts in places that you would expect them to be found if that were the case. And of course the difference in how they are handling the resultant investigations versus the obstructions engaged in by Trump point out the difference between an accident and criminal activity.
But there’s no way Trump can believably say that his documents were taken by accident. He’s said as much in public. They were deliberately taken as “keepsakes”. And if they were taking accidentally there wouldn’t be over 300 of them, and they wouldn’t be filed away in boxes in a locked closet in the basement of Mar-A-Lago.
I’m not sure legally if that makes a material difference, but it’s still a difference that I think should be pointed out more.
I’ve been guilty of failing to return an overdue library book, but at least the library knows the title, knows it’s overdue, and knows who last had it. For some reason classified documents don’t always work that way.
Pence just decided to have his lawyer check his home for classified documents? Trying to stay one step ahead of the law? Did Mother tell him to? Is this a way of distancing himself form Trump?
To be fair, and I know I’m not the first person to say this, if I had ever been involved in government at any level and had access to classified documents I would be going through my personal papers with a fine tooth comb right now just to avoid an unwanted knock at the door. Once again Trump’s narcissism, delusions, and entitlement issues has made what should have been a normal and routine situation into a clusterfuck.
How do you know they’re the Library Police?
It’s barcoded on the back of their necks.
Pence, today:
A couple of things:
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I figure that by the time it gets to the WH, most everything is pretty top-secret, confidential, classified to some degree.
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It’s pretty obvious this is systemic and even the most honest and experienced civilian officials make the same mistake - I genuinely believe Mike Pence was completely dismayed to find he, too, had some. However, let’s not forget: they took pallets of documents from Trump.
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I’m glad that many of you feel that you would have been sent to the brig had you looked at the wrong document. I have bad news for you though: your elected civilian commanders, and their top staff, live by different rules. They aren’t professionals, especially at security, they are lawyers, corporate executives (Tillerson, for example), academics, and more.
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And this isn’t going to change. Procedures and policies will be modified, but the car dealership owner who is now representing Texas’s 10th Congressional district has more discretion and power to avoid consequences for violating security laws than any mid-level member of the military can dream of. And I don’t know what to say to your concerns other than…
From the tenor and thrust of your questions, I conclude that you would think better of Pence if he had waited for government officials to come search his home. Why is that?
You conclude wrong. Try reading the post again.
Then please explain how we’re supposed to read it. When people refer to Karen Pence as “Mother,” it’s usually in a slighting or derogatory way, making fun of her husband’s old-fashioned habits.
And why would you phrase it as he “just decided” to check for classified documents? Do you not feel that prudence is a good thing? And when people say things like “trying to stay one step ahead of the law,” they’re usually referring to people who have broken the law deliberately.
So if you did not mean to insult Pence, please explain why you used wording that is usually used to insult people.
Because Mike Pence is a malignant individual who deserves to be insulted. Let us not forget that Mike was all tut-tut re: Biden. What was that line about motes and beams and eyes?
I believe that he was dismayed in finding he had some docs. The source of this dismay, however, is the loss of a political weapon he could have used against Trump and Biden, not “OMG, I put Americans in danger!”
Moderating:
This is likely going to lead to a hijack of this thread. Using less provocative language would be helpful. Try to keep posts germane to the topic at hand. Thanks.
Really. I would be doing the same and expect no less of my peers, right now.
Between the classifying of just about everything plus the rule about that no official document may be just thrown away, I am actually surprised this doesn’t happen more.
OTOH as far as Obama/W/etc. I can imagine their staffs had enough awareness of them having big fat targets painted on themselves and thus making an extra effort to avoid such pitfalls. While Biden and Pence were more in a “who cares about their papers” position as befits the established derision of the office of VP.
Perhaps. I suspect the fine toothed combs only came out when their papers were being catalogued for their Presidential libraries. I’d be curious to see if transfers from the libraries to the Archives due to classification is a thing that regularly happens. Or if discoveries were made when Bush and Obama moved out of the personal homes they lived in during and immediately after they were president.
I’m convinced accidental retention of classified documents is a fairly common thing among high ranking officials. What sets Trump apart is that you don’t accidentally take something and then try to keep it.
Never mind, mod instructions