# Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945 "2023-01-09T23:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/181 "2023-01-16T16:53:22Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So you are suggesting that a staffer went into a secured document facility, snuck out secret documents for some reason, took them to Joe Biden’s garage in Delaware and left them in a box? How does that remotely follow? > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Do ‘staffers’ even have access to such documents? Is there any evidence at all that this is what happened? Staffers who pack up the Vice President’s office when he leaves office do have access to papers that are in the Vice President’s office when it is being packed up. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > By the way, the house was being rented by Hunter at the time, who we all know is extremely careful with documents and secrets. Is Hunter Biden in the room with us now? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/182 "2023-01-16T17:06:13Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Staffers who pack up the Vice President’s office when he leaves office do have access to papers that are in the Vice President’s office when it is being packed up. Why would the Vice President have papers in his office that are not suppoaed to be removed from the SCIF? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/183 "2023-01-16T17:08:58Z")
Were you under the impression that all classified material must remain in a SCIF at all times? If so, that is incorrect. Classified material is regularly brought to regular offices for review, meetings, etc., it’s just supposed to be returned to secure storage (such as a SCIF) after being used. And it would almost always be staffers, not high level people, who would move classified docs from one place to another. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/184 "2023-01-16T17:09:16Z")
For the same reason Presidents do? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/185 "2023-01-16T17:12:43Z")
It would be very normal (and legal) for some classified material to be used in one of Biden’s old offices, possibly even at home, in some circumstances. It’s just not supposed to be left outside of secure classified storage when not actively in use. So, presumably, at some point Biden or his high staffers were reviewing classified material for legitimate reasons, but then either forgot to instruct a staffer to return it to secure classified storage, or did instruct someone but they forgot or didn’t know how to do that. I think that’s most likely what the investigation will reveal. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/186 "2023-01-16T17:18:26Z")
No cite, but I’m gathering that “The White House” and probably “The Vice President’s office & domicile” have been traditionally considered “classified zones” where classified documents were perhaps treated more loosely than they’d be if they were in actual SCIFs. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/187 "2023-01-16T17:20:56Z")
They wouldn’t even need to be. Assuming legitimate purpose (i.e. reviewing for a briefing or whatever, with a need to know and proper clearance), you can take a classified document to a regular office to review - just close the door, log it properly, and return it to secure storage when finished. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/188 "2023-01-16T18:30:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He owns this. Of course he does, and I don’t believe anybody is arguing to the contrary. But do you think that: a) He’s known, since 2016, that he has classified documents in his possession? and b) He did this purposely? If so, to what end? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/189 "2023-01-16T18:32:48Z")
He refused to return classified documents he shouldn’t have had? Because that was the controversy. That and hiding them, and lying about them. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/190 "2023-01-16T20:16:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > 97 months in jail for taking home classified information. I’m sure this is a straightforward and honest summary of the case, but let’s just click into the link to see if Sam might have missed something. > Shirley also admitted to removing her child, of whom she was the non-custodial parent, to Mexico with the intent to obstruct the lawful exercise of the custodial father’s parental rights. > > “Shirley betrayed the trust of the American people when she took classified information from her work with the Intelligence Community,” said Assistant Attorney General John C. Demers for the National Security Division. “She then sought to profit from her betrayal by seeking to sell this information to Russia, one of America’s foremost adversaries, in order to further her criminal abduction of her daughter." Jesus fuck Sam. This is some pretty egregious misdirection. She got 97 months for taking home classified information as part of a plea deal to avoid being charged with espionage or treason. The other two aren’t as bad, but they are indeed bad. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This guy turned himself in after having secret information on his electronic devices. Two years probation, a $7,500 fine and permanent loss of his security clearance. But you left out… > Nishimura later admitted that, following his statement to Naval personnel, he destroyed a large quantity of classified materials he had maintained in his home. I think that’s a felony per document he avoided being charged with by accepting this plea deal. And… > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Asia Janay Lavarello was working on her classified thesis in a SCIF, but when Covid shut it down she took documents home with her to finish her thesis. She had a dinner party and a guest noticed the documents and reported her. She returned them two days later, but got three months in jail and a $5,500 fine anyway. But if you look at her plea deal… > The government also agrees not to charge the defendant with any false statements made in January 22, 2021, to agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation or to any other federal agent involved in this investigation. … she also obstructed justice by lying to the FBI, a charge she avoided with her plea deal. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/191 "2023-01-16T20:24:19Z")
Exactly. All of those cases included clear criminal intent. So far, we have no evidence of criminal intent for the Biden docs (unlike the Trump docs, based on public reporting). ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/192 "2023-01-16T20:38:50Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > I’m sure this is a straightforward and honest summary of the case, but let’s just click into the link to see if Sam might have missed something. Thank you for taking the time to distinguish these cases from President Biden’s. Pretty important distinctions, for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/193 "2023-01-16T20:45:08Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Pretty important distinctions, for sure. Agreed, the gulf between, “97 months in jail for taking home classified information,” and, “97 months in jail for taking home classified information, with the intent of selling that information to America’s enemies, in order to finance the abduction of a child,” is quite vast. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/194 "2023-01-16T20:57:49Z")
In much the same way “Drove over the speed limit” and “Drove over the speed limit through a kindergarten classroom” are quite materially different offenses. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/195 "2023-01-16T20:58:49Z")
Or peeing in the pool vs peeing into the pool. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/196 "2023-01-16T21:15:21Z")
**Modnote** : Dial it back, this looks an awful lot like you’re attacking the poster and not the post. > [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Jesus fuck Sam. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/197 "2023-01-16T21:17:50Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > 97 months in jail for taking home classified information. This is some pretty serious cherrypicking from your own quoted source. Don’t pull this again or you will be banned from the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2023, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/198 "2023-01-16T21:19:09Z")
Noted. Thank you for the guidance. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/199 "2023-01-18T01:08:35Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I recall seeing cables marked “Secret” that were only announcing someone’s birthday. I really like that one. But what about classified love letters: [Trump’s comments to Woodward reflect an awareness that the documents, which he previously described as “love letters,” were classified.](https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3695447-trump-shared-classified-letters-from-north-koreas-kim-with-woodward-journalist-says/) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2023, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/200 "2023-01-18T01:43:47Z")
I’ll quote myself: > [@FBI Search and Seizure at Trump's Mar-A-Lago Residence (August 8, 2022)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fbi-search-and-seizure-at-trumps-mar-a-lago-residence-08-08-22/969329/3750): > > It would be hard to find a worse person to tell your government secrets too. It’s like asking Cookie Monster to hold your Oreos while you grab some milk. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=11)