# Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945 "2023-01-09T23:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/361 "2024-02-09T17:37:17Z")
@Chefguy is spot on. I’m the same with memory, especially with dates; have been all my life. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/362 "2024-02-09T17:40:15Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This is a complete sentence from [Robert Hur’s report](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/08/1229805332/special-counsel-report-biden-classified-documents): > > > [@](#): > > > > Our investigation uncovered evidence that President Biden willfully retained and disclosed classified materials after his vice presidency when he was a private citizen. > > What would have been willful is to spend time, whenever leaving a government building, checking to see that you weren’t taking a document with you. It depends on when, though. He’s allowed to take classified information home and to keep it at home - when he is VP/President/allowed to - that’s perfectly legal. Biden did that. Pence, Trump, Bush, etc - taking classified stuff home is fine when you’re allowed to do it. When he was not allowed, when Biden stopped being VP and became a private citizen, he should have (remembered) to return it. He did not do that. But, and this is everything, was Biden keeping it at home willfully (intentional/knowingly)? The report concludes no, he did not. Per the report, Biden forgot he kept it from when he was allowed to have it, and that he returned it as soon as he became aware that he still had it (ie, when he first fulfilled the element of willful). That’s why this is not criminal even though they uncovered _some evidence_ of a crime (telling the ghostwriter there was some classified stuff downstairs, a month after not being VP when he was now a private citizen). \*_The report goes over specific documents, and that matters - you have to be charged with a specific document (which gets problematic when Biden says “classified documents downstairs” ie, which one is talking about? - the one I’m charging or a different one)…here, I’m generalizing them all into one thing for clarity - he was allowed to have them at home and then he was not allowed. If there is a specific one that doesn’t fit this pattern, let me know_. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/363 "2024-02-09T17:43:26Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > with all this happening, nara should have a supervisor on site when documents/offices are being packed. Almost every presidential, and, I think, vice-presidential document NOT secret has some value. So you shouldn’t take them either. There’s not much for the supervisor to do here except look for paper. I get that when top officials travel, they want to keep something to read on the way, and not just a published book. And Joe Biden goes home to Delaware most weekends. Before retiring, I was a hard-working (at least if uncompensated overtime counts) government bureaucrat who took public transit and heavily worked with private information. If the FBI searches my home, I will be in the clear. But leaving it all in my locked office impeded my efficiency. So did not printing out documents when working from home during the COVID emergency. What Robert Hur uncovered must be common. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/364 "2024-02-09T17:45:38Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > I saw little to be overly concerned over. The election is 9 months away and memories are very short these days. We didn’t need to have reinforcement of the narrative that Biden is senile while Trump at 77 is a superb physical and mental specimen. [![](https://www.politicalflare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/2023.05.31-08.21-politicalflare-6477ac5414704.jpg) ](https://www.politicalflare.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/2023.05.31-08.21-politicalflare-6477ac5414704.jpg) I’d like to see a real challenge for the Democratic nomination, but that train has long since left the station and is careening down the track, swaying dangerously. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/365 "2024-02-09T17:47:41Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Why wasn’t he charged? You have a point. And the real answer is that he wasn’t charged for the same reason Biden wasn’t; he cooperated, he didn’t hide anything, there was no conspiracy or obstruction. Biden and Pence made mistakes. Trump deliberately committed crimes. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/366 "2024-02-09T17:52:37Z")
Policy-wise Biden has done a fantastic job so far. I don’t care if he forgets inconsequential details as long he keeps making good decisions. History will treat him well and point out the political shallowness that made his memory and stuttering an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/367 "2024-02-09T17:53:35Z")
That is a really great way to frame it. After I read it, I tried to remember the years my mother and brother died. I can remember the night all my brothers and I spent in her hospital room, holding her hand as we wait for her to pass. I can remember getting in my car to go to work when my phone rang with the call that my brother Bill, who was cognitively challenged and lived in a community home, had unexpectedly died. I can remember driving to Philadelphia to see him, even though I knew it was already too late. But I can’t recall the years. I know about how long ago, I think, but I’d have to look it up to give the exact year. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/368 "2024-02-09T17:56:53Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > But I can’t recall the years. I know about how long ago, I think, but I’d have to look it up to give the exact year. I would imagine that what lingers about those experiences are the feelings, and not the facts. ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/369 "2024-02-09T17:56:56Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > You have a point. And the real answer is that he wasn’t charged for the same reason Biden wasn’t; he cooperated, he didn’t hide anything, there was no conspiracy or obstruction. Biden and Pence made mistakes. Trump deliberately committed crimes. So this is generally, right (definitely “mistakes” versus “deliberately”). I just want to make a distinction for everyone else between the specific crime of retaining classified info, and obstructing justice. The response is not directed at you, but more everyone. I’m generalizing…Pence and Biden both had classified info when they were not allowed to have it. It’s only criminal when they knew they were doing that. They claim, and the evidence bears out, they did not _know_ they had it when they were not allowed to have it. When they became aware, ie, they knew (the necessary element of the crime), they returned it. So no crime - they never retained it when they knew they had it. It’s not a crime to just have it and not remember/know you have it. If you keep it after you become aware (or you never stopped being aware), you commit the crime of retaining classified info. If you try and hide evidence of the above from the police, you separately obstruct justice. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/370 "2024-02-09T17:58:43Z")
> [@CoolHandCox](#): > > If you keep it after you become aware (or you never stopped being aware), you commit the crime of retaining classified info. > > If you try and hide evidence of the above from the police, you obstruct justice. This is my (layman’s) understanding as well. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/371 "2024-02-09T18:05:02Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I would imagine that what lingers about those experiences are the feelings, and not the facts. Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/372 "2024-02-09T18:08:28Z")
> 18 U.S.C. § 1924 prohibits “an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States” in possession of documents or materials containing classified information from “knowingly remov[ing] such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location. These are crimes that require both knowledge and intent. We have yet to hear any compelling and unequivocal evidence of either on the part of Biden. In fact, the more I “spot read” Hur’s _report_, the weaker and more limp his assertions and accusations sound. Everything is qualified. He hedges at every turn. Trump, OTOH, appears to be immensely proud of his knowledge (I’m using the word in a very narrow legal sense, it must be said) and intent, speaking about them both incessantly, directly, and with impunity. We’re back to Trump’s “a crime committed in plain sight is not a crime” ethos. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/373 "2024-02-09T18:20:48Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I’ve never been good with dates; even the birthdays of my own kids took me forever to get memorized. Likewise. I consider myself to be chronologically challenged. Always have been. I just don’t consider dates of events important. Never have. Luckily, my Wife’s and my wedding anniversary is the 2nd, and her birthday is the 22nd. Same month. So that’s pretty easy, though I still have to think about it. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/374 "2024-02-09T18:39:32Z")
If it wasn’t for the fact that my wife and I got married on April Fools Day, I’d be in trouble every year. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/375 "2024-02-09T23:31:48Z")
As a few have mentioned, Joe Biden making errors in speaking is not even remotely new. He’s been known for it for decades. “Gaffe machine” was the term applied to him in all his prior Presidential runs. The same errors he’s making now (Mexico instead of Egypt etc.), he made years and years ago. The difference is, when he misspoke at age 50, no one said ‘oh, he’s senile’. People are applying this new standard to him now because it’s politically expedient. They shouldn’t. This is from 2019, but it details errors he made as early as 1988, when he would have been in his forties. > **['I am a gaffe machine': a history of Joe Biden's biggest blunders](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/apr/25/joe-biden-2020-public-gaffes-mistakes-history)** > > As the former vice-president enters a crowded 2020 field, will his well-documented past of confusing and embarrassing moments work against him? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/376 "2024-02-10T04:06:16Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The same errors he’s making now (Mexico instead of Egypt etc.), he made years and years ago. The difference is, when he misspoke at age 50, no one said ‘oh, he’s senile’. We know it’s not senility because we can tell how he made a slip. If you’re senile, it’s a mystery what the heck he’s talking about. For example, many things Trump has said over the years. > **[Trump is spouting nonsense at a greater rate](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/04/05/opinions/trump-is-spouting-nonsense-at-a-greater-rate-dantonio/index.html)** > > Michael D'Antonio writes that President Trump's constant bizarre statements could suggest something more alarming than everyday deceptions. > **[Trump appears as 'crazy uncle' that 'spouts nonsense' in election bid](https://www.express.co.uk/news/us/1729916/donald-trump-2024-election-president-crazy-uncle-social-media-twitter-dxus/amp)** > > Donald Trump's Facebook and Instagram accounts will be reinstated after a two-year suspension following the January 6 insurrection, Meta confirmed last month. Another sign of an aging mind is when someone starts hoarding stuff. In Trump’s case, he hoards things that are matters of national security. ---
**Author:** ![Sylvanz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/fbc32d/32.png) [@Sylvanz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sylvanz)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/377 "2024-02-10T05:07:19Z")
My mom died in September almost a year to the day from when my MIL died. I don’t remember the year. Maybe 2001? I don’t remember how old either of them were when they died. My dad died when he was 59, the day before my birthday, so February 26th. year? Not a clue. I think bringing his son’s death into it was sick. Just more slimy republican mud slinging. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/378 "2024-02-10T05:56:18Z")
My wife has a damn near perfect memory. Ask her how many years we’ve been married or what day we got married (October 4, 2017) and she won’t be able to answer. Dates like that aren’t big for her. I’m convinced the only reason she remembers her birthday (going by the traditioal Korean calendar) is because it’s the same day as a major Korean holiday. Nobody’s memory is perfect. I’ve had zero training in psyops but I’m sure even I could create a list of questions which would confound someone under the pressures a sitting United States president is under. Trump’s blathering is not just an indication of a bad memory, but of intentional evil and unlawful action. He simply does not care. Biden is concerned about the country. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/379 "2024-02-10T13:33:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The proper response to a question about your son’s death date would have been “Fuck off! I’ve got better things to do, ask relevant questions or get lost!” This. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2024, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/380 "2024-02-10T13:58:20Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > The proper response to a question about your son’s death date would have been “Fuck off! I’ve got better things to do, ask relevant questions or get lost!” This might not make you your lawyer’s favorite client. Was Biden mirandized? I googled this and didn’t see an answer. Did he have his lawyer present? I’d think the lawyer would block that question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=20)