# Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945 "2023-01-09T23:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/101 "2023-01-12T21:12:12Z")
> [@EllisDee](#): > > I am, however, no longer outraged by Trump’s initial pilfering of the documents. It’s starting to feel like document security with the president and VP are just generally kind of lax. If true, and Trump was aware of that, then I give him a pass on initially taking the documents. Yeah, no. There is a massive difference between removing documents inadvertently, not knowing they are mixed in with your personal papers and not becoming aware of that fact until you personally directed your own lawyers to scrub your materials to ensure there were none, and intentionally removing such materials because you pretend to believe they belong to you. Trump has admitted – perhaps unaware that he did so – that his removal of these items was intentional. > **[Trump appears to concede he illegally retained official documents](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/aug/23/trump-illegal-documents-fbi-mar-a-lago)** > > Court motion submitted by ex-president’s lawyers argues some materials seized by FBI could be subject to executive privilege To me, that’s a huge difference. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/102 "2023-01-12T21:17:51Z")
Yeah. Pop quiz: Let’s say you’re a server at an upscale restaurant. You go home, check your shirt pocket, and realize that you accidentally kept a customer’s credit card after ringing up their meal. The customer, apparently, didn’t notice at the time. Do you: \*Keep the card, charging up thousands of dollars in Amazon purchases, denying that you have the card when the restaurant manager and credit card holder call you, furious, or \*Call your manager, let them know what happened, and ask them what you should do – bring the card to work tomorrow, contact the issuing bank, call the customer directly, cut up the card … what? The differences are as profound as they are material between the two cases. The fact that the Democrats have found yet another way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory should surprise nobody. Disappointing, though it is. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/103 "2023-01-12T21:39:26Z")
I guess what I’m saying is it seems like there isn’t much security around sensitive executive branch documents, so in my mind it’s not that big of a deal to take them. Still wrong, but it’s not like you busted into a high security area to steal them. You just took stuff that apparently nobody cared enough about to properly safeguard in the first place. I blame the lack of safeguards more than the one (now two and counting? Bet you a dollar Obama is next…) who took advantage\*. Like if I went to go count a big fat stack of cash out on a city street, and then left it there while I went inside a building to use the bathroom, when I come back out I’m not exactly going to get on a moral high horse about how evil the people who stole my cash are. Still wrong to take it but come on. \*Even if the only advantage taken is being able to skip tedious security procedures, that’s still taking advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/104 "2023-01-12T22:15:25Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > There is a massive difference between removing documents inadvertently, not knowing they are mixed in with your personal papers and not becoming aware of that fact until you personally directed your own lawyers to scrub your materials to ensure there were none, and intentionally removing such materials because you pretend to believe they belong to you. Moreover, anybody who tries to treat the former as an inexcusable lapse when the other party’s guy does it has absolutely no defense against the charge of massive hypocrisy when they try to pretend that the latter is no big deal when their party’s guy does it. My response to the whole thing has been “Well, I’m glad to see that Republicans are finally admitting that mishandling of classified documents is a serious problem. Let’s investigate all the mishandling of classified documents, both inadvertent mistakes and incidents involving deliberate lies and coverup attempts.” ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/105 "2023-01-13T00:14:49Z")
…I’m not sure what the panic is about here. This is obviously going to drive the news cycle for a while. And Republican politicians will use this to attack the Democrats, and the right-aligned media will get OUTRAGED and they will get their base OUTRAGED and they will rage on about this probably…forever. But that’s just the way things are now. This isn’t “unbelievably, gigantically, irretrievably horrible news.” If you buy into that you buy into the idea that the Democrats **have to be perfect** , that they can never, ever, make any mistakes. You can’t live like this. You can’t govern like this. You can’t win by constantly being on the defensive. These things are _always_ going to happen. They are unavoidable. Look at it this way: if a simple mistake is boosted by the “right” as a “terrible crime” and boosted by “the left” as a “disaster, unbelievably, gigantically, irretrievably horrible news” then both sides have turned this absolutely nothingburger of a story into the most important story of the news cycle. But this is a blip. And it will only last in the news cycle as long as both sides keep feeding into the [loop](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1d7UvKWh6M). The Dems need to do things properly and by the book. Point out the differences to the Trump case when they are needed to be addressed. But there isn’t much more that they can do about it. Focus on the things you _can_ control and not the things that you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/106 "2023-01-13T00:19:17Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > This is obviously going to drive the news cycle for a while. And Republican politicians will use this to attack the Democrats, and the right-aligned media will get OUTRAGED and they will get their base OUTRAGED and they will rage on about this probably…forever. > > But that’s just the way things are now. I agree. It’s bad (or at least not great) but I reject the idea that because of this, Trump can never be indicted. Does this change the law? Does this change what Trump did? No. So, if we don’t indict him because someone who already hates Joe Biden and the Democrats thinks that Joe did the same thing as Trump, and we’re worried that they’ll get mad… If it’s because of politics… Then this was never about justice in the first place, was it? It wasn’t actually about protecting the country. But no, there are laws, there were serious crimes committed, and Trump flouted them and intentionally put the country at risk. And not only with these particular documents, but with the precedent set if he skates. That’s all that should matter. And I think that’s ultimately what **will** matter. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/107 "2023-01-13T00:36:46Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > This isn’t “unbelievably, gigantically, irretrievably horrible news.” If you buy into that you buy into the idea that the Democrats **have to be perfect** , that they can never, ever, make any mistakes. Until there are more details available about this, it appears that the current President is lax in his respect for the sensitivity of classified information. How to handle such information, remembering where you put it and where it should be. To me, Democratic voter, that’s a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/108 "2023-01-13T00:37:17Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > And not only with these particular documents, but with the precedent set if he skates. Perps get away with the vast majority of crimes. Trump getting away with his crimes is no legal precedent. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/109 "2023-01-13T00:47:52Z")
> [@MulderMuffin](#): > > This. Either they are treating classified documents quite cavalierly, or boring everyday dispatches are marked ‘classified’ willy-nilly. Maybe a bit of column A, a bit of column B. There should definitely be a procedure, a log,—something— that lists who has what so that it can be returned to the proper place. Probably some of both. A lot of open-government advocates have been saying for years that the government is too classification-happy. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/110 "2023-01-13T00:49:53Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Until there are more details available about this, it appears that the current President is lax in his respect for the sensitivity of classified information. How to handle such information, remembering where you put it and where it should be. > > To me, Democratic voter, that’s a big deal. Democrats used to be generally skeptical of the classification system. My hope is that no one in the military or intelligence community was dumb enough to give Donald Trump real secrets such as raw intelligence with names of sources, or detailed weapons plans The Biden situation is conceivably worse because the documents Joe was allegedly careless with may have had information in them that really deserved to be secret. Of course, we’ll never know this because secrecy prevents knowing the document contents. And without knowing a lot about the document contents, it is impossible to know if any of this is a big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/111 "2023-01-13T01:10:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Until there are more details available about this, it appears that the current President is lax in his respect for the sensitivity of classified information. …I think that its better to wait for more details than it is to speculate that “the current President is lax in his respect for the sensitivity of classified information.” How much involvement, exactly, do you think the President of the United States of America should be in micromanaging every single little thing that happens? And I’m not using the term “micromanaging” lightly. Chaos, in a complex system, will always endure. Things are predictably unpredictable. People will inevitably screw up. These are things that have always happened and will continue to happen. People screwed up here. There is no appearance though of malicious intent, and everybody is following procedure to get things fixed. What more do you want here? I’m one of Biden’s biggest critics here. But the Democrats are never going to be perfect, and acting like every mistake is catastrophic will play right into the Republicans hands. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/112 "2023-01-13T01:31:36Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > How much involvement, exactly, do you think the President of the United States of America should be in micromanaging every single little thing that happens? When the President holds a classified document in his hands, I expect that he treat it with the gravity required. Especially, crucially, when he’s done with it. I’m old fashioned, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/113 "2023-01-13T01:36:39Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > When the President holds a classified document in his hands, I expect that he treat it with the gravity required. …the classified documents weren’t found in his hands. They were found in an old private office. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/114 "2023-01-13T01:40:54Z")
Hence the second sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/115 "2023-01-13T01:45:45Z")
…what about the second sentence? We don’t know what he did when he was “done with it”. The investigation is on-going. When its done, we will find out “what he did.” ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/116 "2023-01-13T01:46:04Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > When the President holds a classified document in his hands, I expect that he treat it with the gravity required. Especially, crucially, when he’s done with it. I’m old fashioned, I guess. Do we know that he actually had it in his hands at any point? Is it possible that, while it was located at one of his properties, it was something that he never handled? Say, a memo that was taken by a staff member or a copy of a report that a staff member read to him? Or even just a document someone in his office requested (or created) that he didn’t even know existed? And, I’m honestly asking. If there’s reports that it is something he actually had in his hands at some point, I haven’t seen it yet. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/117 "2023-01-13T01:49:01Z")
I’m speculating (on the obvious) here. If a classified document was in the VP’s home/office/GARAGE?? it was the VP that held the document. Why would anyone bring classified information to the home/office/GARAGE??? of the VP if the information wasn’tintended for the VP. Also, too, to just leave it there. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/118 "2023-01-13T01:50:26Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Trump getting away with his crimes is no legal precedent. Trump committed crimes as an ex-president that were unprecedented. If they fail to prosecute **because** he was the ex-president, then you better believe that sets a precedent. The DOJ has been open about the fact that this is why they haven’t proceeded before the elections on indictments. > **[Attorney General Merrick Garland memo suggests no federal indictment of...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/07/19/garland-memo-trump-indictment-election/10097439002/)** > > Attorney General Merrick Garland reminded prosecutors that extra steps are required before action can be taken in politically sensitive cases. If that’s also why they won’t prosecute, they’re setting a precedent for certain. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/119 "2023-01-13T03:08:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > That’s just a general, grade school mentality, “If you’re gonna investigate us then we’ll investigate you back and see how you like it!” It’s also hilarious because when the Republicans are investigating they’re going to have to specify instances only since Biden became President and they are going to have to forbid anything regarding the previous administration. Republicans: Tell us about how the Biden administration has tried to use you as a political weapon! Random FBI agent: Ummm, I’ve got nothing for you there. However, back in the Trump days… Republicans: YOU SHUT YOUR FILTHY MOUTH, WE DIDN’T ASK ABOUT THAT! Let the testimony show the witness is not being cooperative! Trump is the one who weaponized the FBI to win the Presidency. Trump is the one who openly continued trying to do it (using the FBI and every other agency he could think of) for his entire term and then demanded the FBI do it some more for the midterms. Are you sure you want to talk about politicization of the FBI, Republicans? There is _plenty_ to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/120 "2023-01-13T07:38:34Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > Could somebody please let me know when we’re supposed to start shouting and posting: > > # “WITCH HUNT!” Which hunt? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=7)