# Classified Documents Found in Biden Private Office in November 2022 (January 9, 2023) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 9, 2023, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945 "2023-01-09T23:09:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![icon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c6cbf5/32.png) [@icon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/icon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/121 "2023-01-13T11:51:35Z")
From what I understand regarding the classification of documents, there is no penalty for classifying a document, so you could, if you wanted to, classify your grocery bill because you bought things while you were working for the government, but there are penalties for revealing state secrets. As a result, a lot more is classified than is necessary, just because people err on the side of caution. I think we have an image in our minds that all classified documents are like what we see in movies and television where they are triple locked in some secret room with motion sensors and heat triggers, but it is likely more mundane than that at most of the time. That is not to say that these documents in particular were not particularly sensitive, but that when you handle so many items that are classified with different levels of importance it can be easy to be more cavalier than you should. And when you do end up with some that you did not realize you should not have, you take steps to return them, even if when reading them you did not think it made that much difference that they bought two cans of soup instead of three. `//i\\` ---
**Author:** ![Manlob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Manlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manlob)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/122 "2023-01-13T13:57:40Z")
Republicans my try to draw comparisons between Trump refusing access to Mar-A-Lago and The University of Delaware library refusing Freedom of Information Act requests for over 10 years for access to the 1850 boxes of Biden documents that it holds. But Delaware Superior Court has ruled that no public funds of any kind were involved in maintaining the archive at the public university, and thus Freedom of Information Act does not apply. Also, Biden is not the one refusing access to those documents, it is the university. And these are documents from his 36 years as a Delaware Senator, not Vice Presidential documents. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/123 "2023-01-13T15:47:21Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I’m speculating (on the obvious) here. If a classified document was in the VP’s home/office/GARAGE?? it was the VP that held the document. > Why would anyone bring classified information to the home/office/GARAGE??? of the VP if the information wasn’tintended for the VP. Also, too, to just leave it there. I just try to imagine a way that he could have accidentally ended up with it, for example, he was handed something that he inadvertently set down on/near some personal documents which were later packed up and moved out. Then I consider if it’s possible for something like that to happen without his involvement. For example, a staffer leaves something on his desk and inadvertently sets it in that spot. It could get co-mingled with his personal stuff without him ever having seen or touched it. And that’s just a random hypothetical, I have no idea if something like that is even possible, so we really don’t need to spend a dozen posts nitpicking all the ways I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/124 "2023-01-13T15:55:06Z")
I wasn’t calling you wrong, just expressing my skepticism of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/125 "2023-01-13T17:20:50Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > I just try to imagine a way that he could have accidentally ended up with it He left them in his Trans Am in his garage, he hasn’t been able to go cruising in it since he was elected. [![](https://interactives.theonion.com/biden/assets/img/55582-ddc15943d55ecc233f74b1ed899d71ac.jpg) ](https://interactives.theonion.com/biden/assets/img/55582-ddc15943d55ecc233f74b1ed899d71ac.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/126 "2023-01-13T17:56:27Z")
> [@icon](#): > > From what I understand regarding the classification of documents, there is no penalty for classifying a document, so you could, if you wanted to, classify your grocery bill because you bought things while you were working for the government, but there are penalties for revealing state secrets. You are not allowed to classify a document purely to avoid something like embarrassing information or to frustrate an FOIA request. And each original classifier (so generally any of the executive branch departments) has its own classification guide that specifies what is classifiable. Many people I know who work or have worked in jobs while holding a clearance are frustrated with the last several years. Generally more so with everything regarding Trump and his family, but also regarding both Clinton and now this. It sure seems like the only people the hammer comes down on is the people that actually get things done as employees or contractors. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/127 "2023-01-13T18:19:14Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > It sure seems like the only people the hammer comes down on is the people that actually get things done as employees or contractors. Does it though? I’m believe it’s very unusual to prosecute anybody for mishandling classified information. Certainly we want people working with the stuff to believe it’s dangerous to be careless, but I really think the “If I had done that I’d be in jail” is far more based on culture and training than reality. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/128 "2023-01-13T18:27:57Z")
Even if that’s the case, I still say that the perception is corrosive. Especially with Trump, where he and his family seem to be untouchable. The man was the biggest actual threat to national security in decades and the system didn’t care enough to actually do something. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/129 "2023-01-13T18:51:31Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > It’s bad (or at least not great) but I reject the idea that because of this, Trump can never be indicted. Does this change the law? Does this change what Trump did? No. So, if we don’t indict him because someone who already hates Joe Biden and the Democrats thinks that Joe did the same thing as Trump, and we’re worried that they’ll get mad… If it’s because of politics… Then this was never about justice in the first place, was it? It wasn’t actually about protecting the country. That matches my thinking more or less. If Jack Smith to take these recent events into account when deciding whether to prosecute Trump would actually be evidence supporting the notion that theJustice department is making decisions based on the political concerns of the Biden administration. Jack Smith should (and I believe will) carry on with his investigation without skipping a beat. Meanwhile Robert Hur can conduct his own independent investigation of Biden and let the chips fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/130 "2023-01-13T19:03:04Z")
I’ve worked with classified documents in the Navy for almost twenty years. It is indeed very rare and borderline unheard of to prosecute someone for an unintentional mistake that misplaced or mishandled classified documents. One might be disciplined or even fired, but prosecution is reserved for intentional mishandling - either for profit, for releasing to the public, or for treasonous reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/131 "2023-01-13T19:16:10Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > It sure seems like the only people the hammer comes down on is the people that actually get things done as employees or contractors. I think that if the president relies on classified information to decide whether to bomb another country, impose sanctions, or send military aid to Ukraine, he’s “actually getting things done”. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/132 "2023-01-13T19:59:49Z")
This will cause problems. But there is all the difference in the world between having classified documents, informing others of this, and returning them quickly. However, it is hard to persuade people invested in denying this difference exists. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/133 "2023-01-13T20:04:57Z")
> **[West Virginia Woman Sentenced for Willful Retention of Top Secret National...](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/west-virginia-woman-sentenced-willful-retention-top-secret-national-defense-information-and)** > > Elizabeth Jo Shirley, of Hedgesville, West Virginia, was sentenced today to 97 months of incarceration for unlawfully retaining documents containing national defense information and 36 months of incarceration for international parental kidnapping.... 97 months in jail for taking home classified information. > **[Folsom Naval Reservist Is Sentenced After Pleading Guilty to Unauthorized...](https://www.justice.gov/usao-edca/pr/folsom-naval-reservist-sentenced-after-pleading-guilty-unauthorized-removal-and)** This guy turned himself in after having secret information on his electronic devices. Two years probation, a $7,500 fine and permanent loss of his security clearance. > **[Amid scrutiny of Trump White House docs, DOJ secures prison term for...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/11/politics/justice-department-classified-info-hotel-home-sentence/index.html)** > > A former civilian employee of the Defense Department was sentenced Thursday to three months in prison after admitting to taking materials containing classified information to her hotel room and to her personal residence. Asia Janay Lavarello was working on her classified thesis in a SCIF, but when Covid shut it down she took documents home with her to finish her thesis. She had a dinner party and a guest noticed the documents and reported her. She returned them two days later, but got three months in jail and a $5,500 fine anyway. Admittedly, jail time is fairly rare unless there are extenuating circumstances, but not unheard of. Much more likely is being fired and losing your security clearance, or receiving a fine and loss of clearance and job. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/134 "2023-01-13T20:23:35Z")
All of those appear to be deliberate mishandling, rather than misplacing by mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/135 "2023-01-13T20:26:06Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > I don’t know who might have access to that office and it makes me sad to say it, but I would have no problem believing that they were planted by someone who adores Trump. [Hank Johnson, is that you?](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrat-suggests-classified-docs-bidens-home-office-planted-second-batch-found) ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/136 "2023-01-13T20:31:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > a guest noticed the documents So she didn’t just take classified documents home in order to work with them --she left them openly unsecured, clearly visible to other people attending a party. That’s a much more serious violation . ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/137 "2023-01-13T20:36:23Z")
The key words between jail time with more severe consequences and no jail time with fewer severe consequences are “willful” v. “inadvertent.” It’s really this simple. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/138 "2023-01-13T21:14:01Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > You are not allowed to classify a document purely to avoid something like embarrassing information or to frustrate an FOIA request. And each original classifier (so generally any of the executive branch departments) has its own classification guide that specifies what is classifiable. I’m not a federal government worker, but I do work for state government and I also work for the executive branch. We have data classification standards we have to abide by, and data handling standards based off of how they are classified. Now, what’s interesting is that we don’t usually label things overtly as their classification standards, as in we don’t put a “sensitive” or “restricted confidential” stamp on things. (I mean, usually we don’t, though in some cases we do.) Rather, something is classified based on what’s in it. A document with personal medical information is going to be handled very carefully, while a blank form printed off a public web site is treated with no concern at all. I’ve gathered that the federal government, and in particular the White House, handles things very differently. Documents are labeled explicitly, and there are people who are empowered to classify (or declassify) particular documents at their discretion. But I do think that the process isn’t arbitrary, and they aren’t changing a document’s classification based on convenience. There _must_ be some kind of objective standard for it to mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/139 "2023-01-13T22:47:18Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > > [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > > > I don’t know who might have access to that office and it makes me sad to say it, but I would have no problem believing that they were planted by someone who adores Trump. > > [Hank Johnson, is that you?](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/democrat-suggests-classified-docs-bidens-home-office-planted-second-batch-found) No, he’s much more handsome than me. But I have seen others express the same suspicion as Hank and I. I think it’s sad that any of us think this is at least possible. ---
**Author:** ![mundylion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundylion/32/3604_2.png) [@mundylion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mundylion)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2023, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945/140 "2023-01-14T03:53:17Z")
Pretty much all the comments on this thread are 100% in support of Biden, poor guy getting beaten up for what is obviously not a big deal. Compared to the orange guy. But my understanding from listening to discussions on a number of sides is that Trump will not be indicted, not because of Biden did it too, but because Hillary was given a free pass after her illegal home server issue, arguably a bigger deal than any little bits of paper that might have been in Mara Lago or Joe’s garage. Also found Matt Taibbi’s questioning of the source of the info about the documents to be interesting. In case you haven’t heard it, Matt is guessing that the DNC or the big guys, whoever they are, are nudging Biden to give it up, admit he can’t go another four, and let someone else take over. Why the DA’s office in Chicago revealed the whole thing is a bit odd? You can ignore me, though. Not only do I read Taibbi, I am also a subscriber to the National Review. The actual printed magazine! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/classified-documents-found-in-biden-private-office-in-november-2022-january-9-2023/977945.md?page=8)