# clayton-e, let me remove the stick from your butt **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 14, 2002, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853 "2002-08-14T15:07:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/1 "2002-08-14T15:07:40Z")
With apologies to: **Eve** , for my part in fucking up a [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=130513) which was simply meant as a neat-o foil to narrowminded Manicheism. and: My betters who would take the high road and answer a hysterical, specious, defammatory argument with a calm, well-reasoned, respectful one. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clayton\_e \* > \*\* > > OW OW OW OW OW OW!!! You make my head hurt. Your final note is “your hyphen is in the wrong place.” That’s how you sum it up? That’s like going through a presidential debate and ending with “and my opponent’s tie isn’t straight.” And you didn’t even respond to the main point raised in that slightly incorectly typed post, you are acting as a racist by saying that if they weren’t American they’d break down and pray for help rather than doing anything to stop the terrorists. And also your point is WRONG because, if you’ll look at your religious remark singling out a specific group you are only showing that you don’t understand that the U.S. is a melting pot of many different nationalities. Now let me spell this out for you so I don’t have to watch you embarrass yourself again: In theory, someone who is from the United States who is _also_ a believer in the religion you just bashed could, and I don’t think I’m going too far out on a limb here, get up out of their seat in the plane and help out in the effort to stop terrorists. > > Maybe you like math terms better: > > Given: > > L = People from other beliefs than the Christian majorities live in the U.S. > P = People in the U.S. may travel to accomidate their religious needs > T = People traveling in the U.S. may encounter an act of terrorism > H = Those who encounter terrorism will often attempt to stop their captives > > If L then P, If P then T, if T then H > L is true. > Therefore, “People from other beliefs than the christian majorities who are traveling in the U.S. may try to stop their captives.” > And also: > > I’m afraid you’re confused. > Yes, the origional post refers to great things about the U.S., but what you say is a pretty universal fact about a group of people in danger, they’ll work together, no matter what religion. \*\* Are you saying only Hispanics may venerate the Virgin? I’m sure in your New Order everybody prays to whomever you decide, but from the good people of Ephesus to the ill-fated cult of Donna of Beverly Hills 90210 people of all shapes and sizes have adored the Virgin in all her incarnations. Racist bitch! Go back a bit and see how the wormhole logic in the bland pudding you were so cruelly dealt for as a mind brought you to these faulty conclusions. I compliment your momma’s hair and you run screaming from the room crying about your fat ass. There’s no pleasing someone who’s unable to construe any contextual meaning from their minuscule, prejudiced frame of reference. You and your obtuse minions of drooling jackals may take a long hard suck on my arse. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/2 "2002-08-14T15:40:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I stand by this, maybe you’re taking too much for granted. Lots of people from other cultures might have panicked or prayed the Virgin of Guadeloupe or accepted their perceived fate or hoped someone else would do something. This is why I went off on Eunoia. After I mentioned (not too harshly btw) that her description of Americans is not a quality specific to Americans, Eunoia not only stands by her statement but makes a specific racist remark (hardly a simply pollitically incorrect statement btw). Had I been in her situation I would have simply said, yes, it’s not specific, yes it’s sad it happened, but let’s thank those people who came together and stopped the terrorists. But then again, I’m not Eunoia, so she can go around replying to a serious bit of constructive critisizism from someone else rather than me with a remark bashing where they put their hyphen. And yes, I don’t know how to spell a few words, critisizism is one, go ahead, do your worst. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/3 "2002-08-14T15:51:59Z")
(My apologies to **Eve** , too.) **annoya** (or however it is pronounced)… what’s up with you? Are you suffering from “issues”? Do you have a bug up your “ass”? To address the major problem: heroism isn’t a specifically American trait; you may not have meant it this way, but your post was interpreted as such by several posters, including me. Nitpicky now: you said the _Virgin of Guadeloupe_. That’s pretty damned specific. Not Donna from 90210; not Madonna; not Our Lady of Knock; not the Bhoddisatva of Compassion. I do not take offense personally, but you came over as if you were attacking certain cultures as being less worthy, and specifically Catholic. I can see **clayton\_e’s** point, though not his verbosity. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/4 "2002-08-14T16:04:30Z")
I’m pissed because I do take offense personally. I have many friends (here in the U.S. btw) who are Catholic, members of my family are. And don’t respond with a half assed, “oops… sorry, I didn’t know” Because if you did know I would have taken offense you would’ve mentioned another group. And I don’t have a hyphen in my username, but I don’t give a shit about that. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/5 "2002-08-14T16:55:03Z")
**clayton\_e** you shit all over that thread well before **eunoia** made that idiotic comment. Apparently you didn’t like the responses as give by other posters, so you thought it appropriate to itemize the flaws as you saw fit. Without, by the way, actually contributing anything new. You sir, are a jackass. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/6 "2002-08-14T16:55:36Z")
I’m pissed because I do take offense personally. I have many friends (here in the U.S. btw) who are Catholic, members of my family are. And don’t respond with a half assed, “oops… sorry, I didn’t know” Because if you did know I would have taken offense you would’ve mentioned another group. And I don’t have a hyphen in my username, but I don’t give a shit about that. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/7 "2002-08-14T16:57:43Z")
oops, sorry about the double post, the page was cached on my offline pc, didn’t think my post went through the first time, saved my response and reposted it. sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2002, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/8 "2002-08-14T17:14:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by clayton\_e \* > \*\* This is why I went off on Eunoia. \*\* What bullshit! In the context “Say Nice Things About The U.S.”, I said among many other things: "Not every nation is capable of producing: Men who spontaneously organize with other people from diverse backgrounds and stand up to armed suicidal hijackers." which certainly qualifies. You responded to me and 6 others with a critique of their posts without adding anything whatever to the thread. In MPSIMS! If you don’t see anything exceptional about a plane having a critical mass of very brave dudes on it that’s your opinion. And if you don’t see this a a nice thing to say, fuck you. Don’t, however, construe my remarks to mean that this could **only** happen in the U.S. or that I’m somehow insulting someone or damning them with faint praise, we weren’t discussing your paranoid delusions at all. I denied your distortion as soon as it was brought up and latched on to by other hive minds. The U.S. national anthem calls the country “the home of the brave” should we consider that by signing it people are calling all non-Statesians cowards? By your weak logic yes. Take it up with them. And if you’re genuinely personally insulted by one-quarter of the examples in a sentence designed to put you in the frame of mind that not _every single human being in every single situation_ will risk accelerated death to stand up to armed nutbars, I’ll confess and light a candle for you next Sunday, spunk-funnel. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/9 "2002-08-15T01:08:15Z")
Fine, Eunoia, but that would seem to be a personal characteristic, not a national one. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/10 "2002-08-15T02:06:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bio-brat \* > \*\ ***clayton\_e** you shit all over that thread well before **eunoia** made that idiotic comment. > > Apparently you didn’t like the responses as give by other posters, so you thought it appropriate to itemize the flaws as you saw fit. Without, by the way, actually contributing anything new. > > You sir, are a jackass. \*\* God, I couldn’t agree more. That was an amusing, lighthearted thread until **clayton\_b** showed up and got his panties all in a bunch. Get a grip, man. The thread wasn’t “Most Important American Contributions to the World EVER”. And **eunoia** , no one questions the bravery of the passengers of Flight 93. But to say that their courage is “something people like about America” doesn’t even make sense. Moreover, you came close to insulting our non-American friends by implying that they would not have done the same, were they in that situation, because of some national characteristics or some such. Basically, it was a complete non-sequitor and had nothing to do with the thread. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/11 "2002-08-15T03:04:25Z")
I apologize, I was too harsh. ---
**Author:** ![Rockford](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac8455/32.png) [@Rockford](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rockford)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/12 "2002-08-15T07:30:38Z")
eunoia– \*\* > [@](#): > > Don’t, however, construe my remarks to mean that this could only happen in the U.S. or that I’m somehow insulting someone or damning them with faint praise, we weren’t discussing your paranoid delusions at all. I denied your distortion as soon as it was brought up and latched on to by other hive minds. The U.S. national anthem calls the country “the home of the brave” should we consider that by signing it people are calling all non-Statesians cowards? By your weak logic yes. Take it up with them. \*\* Thank you for your typically asinine rhetoric, pompous imbecile. Now let me explain something: saying “America- home of the brave”? I don’t think anyone has a problem with that. But saying this: > [@](#): > > Lots of people from other cultures might have panicked or prayed the Virgin of Guadeloupe or accepted their perceived fate or hoped someone else would do something. which translates to “America- the _only_ home of the brave” , amounts to ethnocentrism, my friend. You could have just referred to those people on the plane as being brave _without putting others in a negative light_, and probably no one would have said anything. \*\* > [@](#): > > And if you’re genuinely personally insulted by one-quarter of the examples in a sentence designed to put you in the frame of mind that not every single human being in every single situation will risk accelerated death to stand up to armed nutbars, I’ll confess and light a candle for you next Sunday, spunk-funnel. \*\* But you obviously weren’t just talking about the likelyhood of a random group of individuals fighting back against hijackers. You generalized about “other cultures.” Fuckwit. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/13 "2002-08-15T13:39:32Z")
I doubt if a planeload of citizens of Vatican City would have stood up physically to the terrorists. Their personal traits define their national ones. I wish I had your narrow worldview, I’d be so giddy. But that’s again a Great Debate. Maybe they would have converted them but that’s still not the point. If you’ve all suddenly become sensitive Bible scholars, define “mote” and go fuck yourselves. I’ll raise **clayton’s** pity card it’s equivalent: _I_ read all her threads and found a specific example that would get under her skin? Seriously?! She knew I just quit smoking and was down to my last can of hard-to-come-by sharp cheddar aerosol cheese. What a bitch! How low can she go? Now let’s all have a good cry and get back to the real world. Are you choosing your tactics with a Twister® spinner? Right foot blue: play a race card, left hand green, play a pity card. Sure you’ll build a coalition of dorks out to cop a cheap feel who don’t particularly care whether they all fall in heap, because that’s half the fun of Twister®. You’re forcing me to meet your bizarre tactics with equally bizarre ones. That’s how you defeat hijackers, by thinking like they do, dontcha know? Since I’m up against the Children’s Crusade, I’ve adapted the _sortes sanctorum_ to The Big Book of Children’s Stories and all I keep getting is “I’ll grind yer bones to make me bread!”. 'Nuff said. The Pit is far enough out of my element (you shitstained something something…) if you’re going to get me into GD you’ll have to find a way to turn the conversation **yet again** to why they use dollar amounts in preliminary tournament rounds of Jeopardy! even though no money is awarded. I have some **outrageosly unpopular** opinions on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![eunoia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eunoia/32/97_2.png) [@eunoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eunoia)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/14 "2002-08-15T13:49:00Z")
Sorry, **clayton** I didn’t see your post. I’m an asshole and ask forgiveness. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/15 "2002-08-15T13:54:28Z")
You appear to be rather irritating and self-righteous. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/16 "2002-08-15T14:54:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > \*\*You appear to be rather irritating and self-righteous. \*\* Are you speaking of **eunoia** or **clayton\_b**? Or both? BTW, that Vatican City reference is just ridiculous. Most residents of the Vatican are old men, not burly athletes like the ones who rushed the hijackers on Flight 93. Are you suggesting that a plane full of religious Catholic Italian or Irish footballers would have sat around and prayed instead of saying “Hm…we’re strong and athletic. Maybe we can stop these guys?” Because that is a STUPID STUPID assertion. Bravery knows no national boundaries, and religious people != cowardly wimps. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/17 "2002-08-15T15:23:09Z")
Sorry, I meant **eunoia** ; didn’t make myself clear. Though **clayton\_e** , rides the self-righteous bus a bit too, but I wasn’t flaming him! ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/18 "2002-08-15T17:54:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by eunoia \* > \*\*I doubt if a planeload of citizens of Vatican City would have stood up physically to the terrorists. Their personal traits define their national ones. > \*\* Aside from the fact that your example of Vatican City is about the craziest example you could have conceived, I would like a clarification on your theory. Are you suggesting that people of strong religious faith are somehow less willing or able to perform heroic selfless acts because of their religious beliefs? Just because someone is Catholic or Buddhist or Born Again Christian doesn’t mean all they do is sit around and pray all day. God gave us the strength to help others and our religious beliefs wouldn’t prevent us from using it. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/19 "2002-08-15T19:28:26Z")
Sorry to all, sorry eunoia… Let’s just let this thread die now. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853/20 "2002-08-16T06:03:16Z")
No, **clayton\_e** don’t apollogise, I think it’s offensive how **eunoia** seems to think that America is the home of heroism and that citizens of other countries wouldn’t have been so brave. It’s a stupid statement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clayton-e-let-me-remove-the-stick-from-your-butt/123853.md?page=2)