# Clean-shaven as a job requirement **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 29, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630 "2007-12-29T21:04:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/1 "2007-12-29T21:04:49Z")
I had a telephone interview this past week with a fairly well-known publicly-traded corporation for an information technology job. The organization has several thousand employees. This job would be working deep within the bowels of the organization (sector 7-G, I believe), and would not involve any contact with the outside world. At the end of the telephone interview, where we were discussing arrangements for a final in-person interview, the interviewer (from the title, a low-mid-manager, the Director of that-particular-IT-subspecialty) noted that the company requires the daily wearing of a tie and that all employees be clean-shaven. That ended the interview, as it ended my interest in employment with this company. No great purpose to this post except to express my amazement that, in this day and age, a large publicly-traded INDUSTRIAL organization would have such a rule. And yes, I find it discriminatory against a legally-protected class, but even more-so I found it insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/2 "2007-12-29T21:12:53Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] And yes, I find it discriminatory against a legally-protected class, but even more-so I found it insulting. [/QUOTE] What class? I find it amazing too, but it’s not illegal. Neither potential girlfriends nor potential jobs have got me to take off my beard in over three decades, nor will any. They don’t like it; they can do without me. (I almost cut it off once when some coworkers passed the hat, but the purse wasn’t big enough.) ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/3 "2007-12-29T21:18:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > What class? I find it amazing too, but it’s not illegal. Religious. And a casual search turned up lots of prior cases where challenges were successful. But I have no interest; I wouldn’t work for them (now) even if they waived the requirement for me alone. The amazing part for me is: what possible purpose does this rule serve? ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/4 "2007-12-29T21:19:33Z")
Ah, never mind. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/5 "2007-12-29T21:35:10Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] The amazing part for me is: what possible purpose does this rule serve? [/QUOTE] It separates the Yes Men from the No Men. Personally, I think you should take the job and show up on the first day with all body hair, including eyebrows, shaved, wearing a tie, a kilt, and a pair of [Dia de Los Muertos cowboy boots](http://www.caboots.com/product/1XRTDIA/DIA_DE_LOS_MUERTOS_COWBOY_BOOTS.html). You know, just to make the point. You should also refer to yourself in the third person and carry a bowling ball around with you everywhere. Of course, I also think that Steve Douglas of “My Three Sons” was a serial murderer, so… “Who is that dashing fellow, Smithers?” “Why, that’s **Raza** , sir.” “ **Raza** , eh? New employee?” “No, sir, he’s one of your organ doners from Sector 7G.” “Egggg-celent! Have him sent up at once. And Smithers,…” “Yes, sir?” “Release the hounds.” Stranger ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/6 "2007-12-29T21:36:24Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] Religious. [/QUOTE] For the last time, Marxism is _not_ a religion. Outside of foodservice I think facial hair requirements are fairly silly, but so is beard fetishism. Nonetheless, best of luck finding someone who’ll allow you deep into their bowels unshaven. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/7 "2007-12-29T21:48:19Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Nonetheless, best of luck finding someone who’ll allow you deep into their bowels unshaven. [/QUOTE] When did this turn into a conversation about anal sex? ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/8 "2007-12-29T22:01:05Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] At the end of the telephone interview, where we were discussing arrangements for a final in-person interview, the interviewer (from the title, a low-mid-manager, the Director of that-particular-IT-subspecialty) noted that the company requires the daily wearing of a tie and that all employees be clean-shaven. [/QUOTE] So how is Ross Perot these days anyway? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/9 "2007-12-29T22:11:32Z")
I thought this was going to be about porn… ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/10 "2007-12-29T22:20:22Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] Religious. [/QUOTE] I know that [Sikhism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism), the fifth-largest religion in the world (according to Wikipedia), requires baptized Sikhs to follow [five articles of faith](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ks), the first of which is not cutting any body hair. Are there any other religions that also have restrictions on hair cutting? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/11 "2007-12-29T22:21:14Z")
When I worked for IBM back in the 80s, it was an unspoken rule. They allowed a neat mustache but no beards. Women who wanted to go anywhere would stick to skirts. White shirts were expected and ties were quiet and non-disruptive. I thought it was a perfectly hideous expectation but uptight was their trademark and they got away with it. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/12 "2007-12-29T22:27:56Z")
In the military it’s not uncommon for African American men to get special permission to grow facial hair, due to skin problems caused by shaving. I’d love to see a company tell an African American with a shaving condition he _has_ to shave. Oh, and let’s not forget about women with facial hair. Yeah, tell them they have to shave. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/13 "2007-12-29T22:50:52Z")
If beards are good enough for the [RCMP](http://www.sikhspectrum.com/092002/baltej.htm), they’re good enough for any company I may run. I think there’s an anti-beard bias built into English-speaking North America’s culture. We tend to associate them with either a) beggars, or b) subversives, in spite of Santa Claus. The very expression “_clean_-shaven” indicates this. ---
**Author:** ![Raza](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raza/32/213_2.png) [@Raza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raza)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/14 "2007-12-29T23:12:53Z")
I apologize if the thread hasn’t shifted _more_ towards porn, but I’m doing my best. FTR, I have worked in jobs/industries where beards are an absolute no-no, whether due to historical and PR reasons (law enforcement) or safety reasons (launch pads and such, although LE can cite this reason, too), and I’ve not had a beard in those settings. Further, I would shave a beard if I wished to be employed in either of these in the future, so it isn’t a cause ultimate for me. I’m just amazed, moreso than outraged, about this rule in such a large, publicly-traded company. Besides Sikhs, married Amish men, and Hasidic Jews, many Muslims wear beards for religious reasons. Granted, there aren’t many Amish working in IT, at least not around here, but still: that’s a lot of groups - protected classes - that would take issue. Again, my purpose is not to be whiny and outraged - I’m simply amazed. And while there have been many, many years that I have been beardless, there has never been a day since I was 16 that I was moustacheless, so even if we came to common ground on beards, moustaches would be the deal-killer. Also, to be clear, I am a man. ---
**Author:** ![bathsheba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@bathsheba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bathsheba)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/15 "2007-12-29T23:27:58Z")
Maybe they have a dodgy biometrics system? Or they’re Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/16 "2007-12-29T23:32:15Z")
My husband had a job once that allowed only a trimmed mustache. Up until that point, I’d never seen him without his beard. Thankfully, the boss at that job was an ass, and my sweetie quit after a few weeks. He’s been fuzzy-faced ever since. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/17 "2007-12-29T23:35:29Z")
Ties for an IT position? At a previous job (business casual), IT folks could wear black jeans if they were snaking cables or other dirty work. Later in that job (and all the other tech companies I’ve worked for) the dress code has been pretty much “cover naughty bits” Brian ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/18 "2007-12-29T23:40:00Z")
I can’t think of a good reason for a clean-shaven rule except working in a food factory or clean room or somewhere that there is an actual hygenic concern about facial hair. Other than that, it really does just sound like “pound yourself into this shape so you fit our mold.” Bleah. Paying my salary doesn’t mean you own me. You’re only renting me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/19 "2007-12-29T23:40:12Z")
I’m surprised ties are still required. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/20 "2007-12-29T23:53:30Z")
For many years, Disneyland required its employees to be clean-shaven, as facial hair was often symbolic of hippies and other un-Disneylike riffraff. The park now allows mustaches- although at one time it didn’t, despite the fact its founder had one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630.md?page=2)