# Clean-shaven as a job requirement **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 29, 2007, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630 "2007-12-29T21:04:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/21 "2007-12-30T00:06:07Z")
The guys across the street that handle plutonium have to be clean shaven so the respirators will seal properly. They’re also not allowed to work if they have any cuts or scrapes, to prevent uptake. In an office environment, I think it’s a silly requirement. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/22 "2007-12-30T00:20:34Z")
I once worked at a job where a beard _and_ long hair were requirements. It was as a movie extra. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/23 "2007-12-30T00:35:22Z")
[QUOTE=mobo85] The park now allows mustaches- although at one time it didn’t, despite the fact its founder had one. [/QUOTE] Yeah… so did _ **HITLER** _! ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/24 "2007-12-30T00:52:47Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] The guys across the street that handle plutonium have to be clean shaven so the respirators will seal properly. They’re also not allowed to work if they have any cuts or scrapes, to prevent uptake. In an office environment, I think it’s a silly requirement. [/QUOTE] See, this makes sense to me. If the employee is going to be at risk due to facial hair, I think it’s probably unreasonable to expect the employer to take the responsibility for that safety hazard. Likewise, I could a restriction on _long_ beards in an industrial setting, because they could easily become tangled in machinery, and I could maybe see a set of restrictions on facial hair in the food industry, just like for head hair. But for an IT job, this seems silly. The tie thing? That doesn’t surprise me at all. Dressing like that is a standard part of working in some offices, and has been for a long time. Some people believe that by dressing professionally, you’ll trick people into acting professionally, and I think there’s a touch of merit to the idea myself. Was the Marxism thing a joke, or did I just get whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![Skylark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Skylark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skylark)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/25 "2007-12-30T01:04:09Z")
[QUOTE=Waenara] I know that [Sikhism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism), the fifth-largest religion in the world (according to Wikipedia), requires baptized Sikhs to follow [five articles of faith](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Ks), the first of which is not cutting any body hair. Are there any other religions that also have restrictions on hair cutting? [/QUOTE] Jainism is one (also from India), and so is Rastafarianism. I’m sure there are others that have select restrictions in certain fashions, certain times, etc. but I’ll have to get back to you. [QUOTE=levdrakon] In the military it’s not uncommon for African American men to get special permission to grow facial hair, due to skin problems caused by shaving. I’d love to see a company tell an African American with a shaving condition he _has_ to shave. [/QUOTE] The military is very accomodating to that. It’s colloquially called your “No Shave Chit”, and you have to wear it at all times (to prove you’re not just a dirty steenkin’ hippy), but otherwise easy to get and no one bothers you for. The United States Navy sadly requires its men to be clean-shaven (what a filthy sentence) because facial hair kafucks up the seal of the gas masks and other firefighting equipment needed to fight fires on the ship so not everybody dies in the middle of the ocean. The US Army may have their own half-baked set of reasons themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/26 "2007-12-30T01:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] The guys across the street that handle plutonium have to be clean shaven so the respirators will seal properly. They’re also not allowed to work if they have any cuts or scrapes, to prevent uptake. In an office environment, I think it’s a silly requirement. [/QUOTE] Hey, those guys have a great excuse for not coming to work: “I cut myself shaving, boss” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/27 "2007-12-30T02:10:28Z")
“I don’t suppose they are still hiring?” says the clean-shaven drug-free poster with kids to support looking for work in the NY-NJ area… ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/28 "2007-12-30T02:48:41Z")
Those whose beards are due to membership in a legally protected class, most commonly religion, cannot be required to shave to conform to a dress code, assuming the employer is covered by Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This type of religious protection only applies to people whose beard is due to their religion. The fact that some religions require beards does not mean everyone has the right to employment free of beard discrimination. The right is to employment free from religious discrimination. Those whose beards are due to personal preference are in the same boat as those with tattoos, piercings, and flamboyantly dyed hair. Government has not passed legislation that prohibits employers from making those characteristics part of a dress code. From a policy perspective, I don’t believe anything would be different in requiring a woman to shave a beard if men are also required to shave. Some managers would find the conversation more awkward, but that seems to be the extent of the difference. In fact, in many states it is OK to have different dress codes for men and women. Thus, a woman could be required to shave and a man allowed to have a beard. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/29 "2007-12-30T03:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=Skylark] The United States Navy sadly requires its men to be clean-shaven (what a filthy sentence) because facial hair kafucks up the seal of the gas masks and other firefighting equipment needed to fight fires on the ship so not everybody dies in the middle of the ocean. The US Army may have their own half-baked set of reasons themselves. [/QUOTE] The Army will tell you it’s so your gas-mask will seal properly, thus saving your life. I always figured that was kinda bullshit though. They do allow you to have a little Hitler moustache, so you can express your individuality. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/30 "2007-12-30T04:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] …the company requires the daily wearing of a tie and that all employees be clean-shaven. [/QUOTE] What does clean-shaven mean in this context? Does it mean no facial hair at all, or you’re allowed to have a beard, but you can’t come in having “neck beard”? Because if it’s the latter, just keep your beard tidy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/31 "2007-12-30T04:37:06Z")
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] What does clean-shaven mean in this context? Does it mean no facial hair at all, or you’re allowed to have a beard, but you can’t come in having “neck beard”? Because if it’s the latter, just keep your beard tidy. [/QUOTE] Show up with a beard and when you’re called on it say, 'My _face?_😕 ’ And then adjust your crotch. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/32 "2007-12-30T04:40:32Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] Show up with a beard and when you’re called on it say, 'My _face?_😕 ’ And then adjust your crotch. [/QUOTE] That would depend on the job, now, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/33 "2007-12-30T04:45:49Z")
Clean shaven is common in the Security field as well, for “appearance” and “professionalism”, whatever those mean. At Securitas (the Walmart of Security), you generally were not allowed to have a beard unless your client specifically allowed it. At the client I worked for, it was verbotten without the specific permission of the APM. However, one of our supervisors grew one without permission and nothing was said, so I did as well (being the other supervisor). Because I’d had one for 16 years before going there and dammit, I wanted it back! By the time they got around to telling me to shave it off several months later, I made a fuss and got special permission to keep it. At Loomis and most other Armored companies, you are not allowed to have beards. I’ve heard lately that Loomis now allows goatees, but that ain’t good enough for me. ---
**Author:** ![hekk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@hekk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hekk)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/34 "2007-12-30T04:50:28Z")
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] What does clean-shaven mean in this context? Does it mean no facial hair at all, or you’re allowed to have a beard, but you can’t come in having “neck beard”? Because if it’s the latter, just keep your beard tidy. [/QUOTE] Yeah, this is a good point. My company has the same “clean-shaven, business dress” philosophy, and it is a HUGE international industrial giant. By clean-shaven, according to my HR rep lady, they mean either a shaved face or a neat beard/mustache/goatee. The rule is in effect to prevent unprofessional looking scraggly/wispy facial hair only, not to force everyone to remove all facial hair. FTR, I have the same problem most Black men have in regards to shaving. I have very, very curly facial hair, and shaving gives me jillions of painful and irritating ingrown hairs and razor bumps. The dipliatory powders irritate me further,so I keep a beard and shave only where it’s necessary. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/35 "2007-12-30T04:54:02Z")
You know, it _could_ just be that the company big-wigs don’t like facial hair. So what? I’ve worked for places that **required** facial hair. I’ve worked at places that banned it. Big whoop. I’ve often daydreamed about hitting the lottery and founding a company that required all employeees to dye their hair pink and dress like Bozo. My company, my rules. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/36 "2007-12-30T04:54:12Z")
I read an article in the Dallas Observer many years ago about a woman in the area who refused to rent any of her property to people with any facial hair, long hair, or motorcycle owners. I don’t know if she’s still around though. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/37 "2007-12-30T05:16:48Z")
I once interviewed for a associate position at a small private law practice, where the partners were a husband and wife team of attorneys. I have had a short, neat beard for years, and the male partner who interviewed me mentioned toward the end of the interview that he didn’t much care for it, and if I came to work for him, he would expect me to shave it. Funny thing, he very projected an “old hippie-turned-yuppie” vibe, and had a long gray ponytail – apparently that was just fine. I didn’t take the job, but that definitely wasn’t the only reason. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/38 "2007-12-30T05:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=ASAKMOTSD] So how is Ross Perot these days anyway? 😉 [/QUOTE] Actually, I sort of figured that **Raza** had interviewed at EDS of GM, guessing that the Perot brand was deeply embedded on all the guys he left behind in EDS when his GM takeover failed. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/39 "2007-12-30T06:20:21Z")
[QUOTE=Raza] I find it discriminatory against a legally-protected class, but even more-so I found it insulting. [/QUOTE] Unless you’re a member of an affected religious group… no. Merely because it might affect some religions doesn’t make invalid across the board. ---
**Author:** ![trupa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@trupa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/trupa)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630/40 "2007-12-30T06:52:43Z")
I was thinking of the respirator seal thing for haz-mat situations, like when I worked in a building where they did chip fabrication. One took evacuation drills very seriously in that place, especially when you pass 20 Scott Air packs stations on your way to your cube every day. But the tie, you got me with the tie… Haven’t these people heard of the silicon valley culture of innovation? It’s been kiddie-level stuff in B-Com and MBA degrees for 20 years now. Sheeesh. -trupa, an otherwise very straight-laced MBA (Major in high-technology management) who ditched the shirt & tie so the developers would take him more seriously. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clean-shaven-as-a-job-requirement/431630.md?page=3)