# Clearly security clearances and OPSEC mean nothing in the US today. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932 "2011-05-14T21:19:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/1 "2011-05-14T21:19:09Z")
> [@](#): > > The official spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the classified nature of the information. > [@](#): > > A source inside spoke with us on the condition that we not use their name as they were not authorized to speak on the subject. > [@](#): > > Sources who saw the photos but were not authorized to discuss them told CNN that… > [@](#): > > SEAL Team 6, an anonymous insider verified And a million other articles of the last month. Look, whether you believe Secret, Top Secret, Classified, Sensitive or FOUO information should be broadcast publicly or not doesn’t matter. You don’t decide. I don’t decide. These people are entrusted with sensitive information and, with seemingly increasing regularity, they run out of high level meetings and divulge all levels of details regarding sensitive or classified information. What do they get out of this? Hopefully after the poor, POOR handling of the Bin Laden mission information someone will crack some heads and start enforcing the OPSEC and classification guidance that we all agree to when we accept clearances or are privy to sensitive information. The clearance system has become a fuckin joke in the last decade. Does it not bother the avg citizen when they see classified information divulged by anonymous sources like this or are you just glad to get the low-down on whatever you read? Aren’t you concerned that someday the wrong insider is going to divulge the wrong info and will seriously compromise our national security? Oh wait, I guess Bradley Manning already has tried that. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/2 "2011-05-14T21:24:46Z")
If that’s so, then I, for one, would be happier if they’d stop requiring TS/SCI/Polygraph for fucking backoffice work. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/3 "2011-05-14T21:27:24Z")
Honestly, I usually assume that “anonymous sources” get a wink wink authorization to go leak to the press stuff the gov’t wants public but doesn’t want to have to stand by. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/4 "2011-05-14T21:34:56Z")
There is, of course, a difference between classified information and that for which one is “not authorized to speak on the subject.” ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/5 "2011-05-14T21:57:02Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Honestly, I usually assume that “anonymous sources” get a wink wink authorization to go leak to the press stuff the gov’t wants public but doesn’t want to have to stand by. Don’t you think that’s worse, though? I mean, if the info is classified, then there ought to be a reason, right? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/6 "2011-05-14T22:24:16Z")
The Ship of State is the only ship that leaks from the top. -Sir Humphrey Applebee. (Fictitious. But accurate.) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/7 "2011-05-15T12:15:56Z")
How was the Bin Laden information mishandled? He’s dead, and once he _was_ dead, what difference does it make how the information gets spread? ---
**Author:** ![Amasia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Amasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amasia)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/8 "2011-05-15T14:41:33Z")
Just to confirm what others have said, these are almost all “authorized” leaks. “Those familiar” are possibly not authorized, but probably. “An anonymous official” almost always is. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/9 "2011-05-15T15:35:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How was the Bin Laden information mishandled? He’s dead, and once he _was_ dead, what difference does it make how the information gets spread? The information about the op and those who participated. Do you not read further than the headlines on Yahoo news or something? ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/10 "2011-05-15T15:42:37Z")
Yeah, I remember reading an article about how the SEALs were getting angry at all the public attention to the operation, how everyone was so desperate for details of the raid that it was putting them at risk. They were basically begging everybody to stop being interested and just let it go. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/11 "2011-05-15T17:14:02Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yeah, I remember reading an article about how the SEALs were getting angry at all the public attention to the operation, how everyone was so desperate for details of the raid that it was putting them at risk. They were basically begging everybody to stop being interested and just let it go. Well, best of luck to them with that, but Team 6 did something significant and it’s human nature to want details and to share them. I’m comforted that this challenges all the various conspiracy theories - if there’s a secret about something important, it won’t stay secret for long. Somebody will blab sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/12 "2011-05-15T17:51:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, best of luck to them with that, but Team 6 did something significant and it’s human nature to want details and to share them. > > I’m comforted that this challenges all the various conspiracy theories - if there’s a secret about something important, it won’t stay secret for long. Somebody will blab sooner or later. The fact that humans are curious and bragidocious (sp?) does not make this acceptable. People (myself included) in sensitive or classified areas/jobs see and do significant things every day that would wow your socks off and make headline news nightly. It’s not okay for us to discuss them just because it’s human nature. As trusted agents we (they) are expected to resist our human nature and keep secrets secret. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/13 "2011-05-15T18:03:27Z")
_Braggadocious_. Although it’s not a “real” word, so spell it however you like. If classified information is being leaked all the time, the fault is with the people granting clearance. Don’t give top secret clearance out to every Tom, Dick or Sarah working a receptionist’s desk if you don’t want people to find out about your top secrets, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/14 "2011-05-15T19:06:21Z")
Frankly, the difference between the extremely well-kept secret of bin Laden’s whereabouts until the raid and the poorly-kept secrets after the raid is too great to be an accident. Most of these leaks are probably intentional-- things that the administration wants the public to know but believes would reflect badly on if directly stated to the media. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/15 "2011-05-15T19:25:17Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Yeah, I remember reading an article about how the SEALs were getting angry at all the public attention to the operation, how everyone was so desperate for details of the raid that it was putting them at risk. They were basically begging everybody to stop being interested and just let it go. How’d you find out about how the SEALs are feeling? Did the story quote human beings with names? Or “sources familiar with the special forces community”? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/16 "2011-05-15T19:31:36Z")
Are there any actual examples of meaningful security leaks regarding the Osama raid? Be a little easier to discuss some sort of concrete case. “Sources not authorized to speak” reporting annoys me not because I think classified stuff is getting out that way, but because it lets gov’t officals get information out without having to stand by it in any way. This gets pretty comical sometimes, as it gets attached to information that there isn’t really a conceivable reason not to have a name attached to, but the source insists anyways to ensure they can never be called on it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/17 "2011-05-15T19:50:37Z")
> [@Cubsfan](#): > > The fact that humans are curious and bragidocious (sp?) does not make this acceptable. People (myself included) in sensitive or classified areas/jobs see and do significant things every day that would wow your socks off and make headline news nightly. It’s not okay for us to discuss them just because it’s human nature. As trusted agents we (they) are expected to resist our human nature and keep secrets secret. I didn’t say it was okay, just that being annoyed by the _method_ of promulgation is pointless. I assume it was never intended that the killing of Bin Laden be kept secret, so once it was done, who cares how it gets blabbed? Granted, blabbing _before_ the fact is quite different. And I’ve held a Top Secret clearance, too, so the playing of the “wow” card has limited effect. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/18 "2011-05-15T20:13:33Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How’d you find out about how the SEALs are feeling? Did the story quote human beings with names? Or “sources familiar with the special forces community”? [http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/05/13/seals-angry-at-attention-want-it-stopped](http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/05/13/seals-angry-at-attention-want-it-stopped) It is actual people with real names. Try to avoid the comments though, they’re a little freeper-crazy for my tastes. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/19 "2011-05-15T20:14:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > And I’ve held a Top Secret clearance, too, so the playing of the “wow” card has limited effect. You mean I’m not going to get super powers? Damn! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932/20 "2011-05-15T21:11:00Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > [http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/05/13/seals-angry-at-attention-want-it-stopped](http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/05/13/seals-angry-at-attention-want-it-stopped) > It is actual people with real names. Try to avoid the comments though, they’re a little freeper-crazy for my tastes. How would the knowledge of the fact that the SEAL team wore helmet cams compromise anything? Or even the type of weapon they used? Have Team 6’s names been released? If so,\* that’s\* a big deal. Otherwise…meh. It was known from almost the beginning that the people in the situation room were following a live feed of the operation as it was in progress. Where did people think that feed came from, magical elves? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clearly-security-clearances-and-opsec-mean-nothing-in-the-us-today/581932.md?page=2)