# Clenching your buttocks during a Terry stop? Prepare for your anal probing. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255 "2013-11-06T17:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/121 "2013-11-08T21:21:21Z")
[China](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/12/1047431092598.html) > [@](#): > > The condemned criminal is taken by open truck to the execution ground and made to kneel with hands cuffed and head bowed, before being shot in the head. Families who want to reclaim the body are charged for the bullet. [Iran](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/06/23/politics/animal/main5107256.shtml) > [@](#): > > Upon learning of his son’s death, the elder Mr. Alipour was told the family had to pay an equivalent of $3,000 as a “bullet fee” – a fee for the bullet used by security forces – before taking the body back, relatives said. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/122 "2013-11-08T21:31:41Z")
A nice preliminary analysis of the law involved here: [A Preliminary Legal Analysis of Eckert v. City of Deming, the "Clenched Buttocks" Case - The Volokh ConspiracyThe Volokh Conspiracy](http://www.volokh.com/2013/11/07/thoughts-eckert-v-city-deming/) Worth reading in full if you’re curious about the legal side. On the factual side, this is notable: > [@](#): > > Some media coverage on this case focuses on the line in the affidavit that the officer had apparently said that Eckert had a stiff posture and kept his legs together, which some blog posts are reporting as the sole basis for the warrant. The HuffPost article on the case offers this inflammatory opening line: “A New Mexico man is alleging abuse after authorities conducted three enemas, a colonoscopy, an X-ray and several cavity searches on him simply because he appeared to clench his buttocks.” As a result, a lot of folks in the blogosphere seems to be thinking of this as the “clenched buttocks” case (thus the title of this post, so people know which case I have in mind). But that seems like at most a very small picture of the alleged cause, and we don’t even know if that was in the affidavit. The likely basis for the alleged cause is mostly the drug-sniffing dog’s alert to the driver’s seat that is the likely basis for probable cause. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/123 "2013-11-08T22:12:15Z")
That writer makes a valid point up until he calls it a ‘drug-sniffing’ dog as the occupational status of the dog seems to be somewhat in doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/124 "2013-11-08T22:23:21Z")
Is there any source of independent information about the dog? That seems like a highly-relevant factor (to the legal analysis, not the wholesale fuckedupedness of this situation). ETA: here’s what US News said: “KOB-TV reports that a K-9 dog named “Leo” incorrectly alerted police to the existence of drugs in each of the men’s vehicles. The station reports that Leo’s drug-sniffing certification expired in April 2011.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/125 "2013-11-08T22:25:00Z")
It’s somewhere up above in the thread, someone(s) linked to an article about the dog. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/126 "2013-11-08T22:31:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > I’m wondering if imposing the title “Doctor” or “Nurse” removes the ability of the anointed to read. Could no one (with one exception) read the warrant and see that it was for the wrong time and the wrong place? Were they so anxious to perform this delightful operation that they couldn’t take the time to see if it was legal? Were they so quivering with anticipation to help out the long arm (and finger) of the law that they were blind to personal rights? Is the doctor qualified to understand and evaluate the search warrant? Or does the hospital have its counsel on call to review such warrants as they arise (even if in the middle of the night?)? I wonder what the hospital’s procedure is for such cases. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/127 "2013-11-08T22:32:54Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > According to the defendant’s lawyer: > > “Kennedy filed a motion for summary judgment Oct. 24, asking the court to rule on the facts of the case, which she says are not disputed. She says defendants responded by expressing interest in resolving the case outside of court.” > > I guess that could just be lawyer speak. That is unfortunate as my guess is that it means that it’s going to be settled out of court and probably with a confidentiality clause. So we’ll never know how it ended. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/128 "2013-11-08T22:33:10Z")
Too late to edit, but the doubts about the dog are referred to in posts 15, 52 and 54. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/129 "2013-11-08T22:34:40Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Too late to edit, but the doubts about the dog are referred to in posts 15, 52 and 54. Thanks. It looks like the dog was certified at some point and lost that certification. The question for qualified immunity and good faith exception purposes would be whether the officers knew this. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/130 "2013-11-08T22:40:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [China](http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/03/12/1047431092598.html) Thanks. I note the article is from 2003 so it is a bit late to ask for confirmation but, here’s the thing, I have heard this (about China) _many_ times in the _news_. every time I have tried to get some kind of confirmation from the reporter as to the source and I have _never_ gotten a response. Never. I have a very strong feeling that it is one of those things they feel they can safely put in there because “everybody knows it’s true”. I have never been able to get a positive confirmation and until I do I remain skeptical. The fee is not for the bullet (which has already been spent) it is for the recovery of the body. Maybe there is a fee of some sort to get the body and they call it a “bullet fee” in slang. Whatever they call it it is not for the bullet and it would be minimal if it were. Still, I can’t help but note from the article the prevalence of the death penalty in China which I find apalling as I am very opposed to it as barbaric. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/131 "2013-11-08T23:05:30Z")
> [@Gagundathar](#): > > Is it noteworthy that the victim of this crime (and it is my layman’s belief that it was, in fact, a crime) waited 10 months before his attorney released the information to the press? Did it take that long for the guy to find an attorney, or did the attorney attempt to settle out of court or was it something else? It was pointed out in the MPSIMS thread on this case that the facts have only come out now because it’s now a matter of public record - I.e., it’s gone to trial. The poor anally-probed guy didn’t go to the press before because he didn’t want to be the butt of everyone’s jokes. Even now, his lawyer has made only factual statements about the case, and the plaintiff is silent. Doesn’t sound like a glory-hound to me. The dog, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/132 "2013-11-08T23:58:38Z")
> [@](#): > > …When Eckert refused, the document says, a police K-9 dog alerted them to the side of his car. Don’t get it. “Alerted them to the side of his car” simply does not parse in any way I can make sense of. There were already at the side of his car, yes? And are all K-9s drug sniffers? Did the dog accompany them to the car when they first “interviewed” him? Would that be taken to imply they already intended a drug search, or the dog needed to pee on something. > [@](#): > > …Maybe the officers who did this don’t like him living in their community," said Kennedy. “He’s a white boy, a scraggly white boy, and all these officers are Hispanic. It’s a New Mexico thing.” > > Kennedy said her client, 63-years-old when he was detained, looks somewhat like rocker Tom Petty and says he denies standing with his buttocks clenched… Offered without comment. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/133 "2013-11-09T00:09:17Z")
> [@tbook](#): > > Well, the good news is that by being billed almost $6,000 for a govt anal probe, he may be just able to meet his yearly deductible for an ObamaCare Bronze plan. > [@epbrown01](#): > > They can’t really deny the procedures - they billed him for them. If there’s a different side to things, it likely lies in that; wouldn’t they bill the police for such exams normally? If they tried and the police refused to pay… Health insurance companies will not pay for “forensic exams”, which would be any procedure done as part of a criminal investigation instead of being medically necessary to treat the patients. Awhile back there was a scandal when some police departments (including Wasilla, AK) submitted bills for rape exams to the victim’s insurance company instead of paying them (naturally the insurers declined leaving the victim with the bill). The only possibly way I can imagine an insurance company paying for something like this would be if the hospital called them beforehand, gave them _all_ of the facts, and the CSR massively fucked up. > [@grude](#): > > YUP! Another man went through the same ordeal with these same cops. > > [http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3210356.shtml?cat=500#.Uns7HCe2YyP](http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3210356.shtml?cat=500#.Uns7HCe2YyP) I wonder if there’s some kind of “deal” going on between these cops and this hospital? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Bullshit. Suppose they accused him of hiding drugs in his testicles. Would he then have a choice of going to prison or castration? I once asked in GQ if there were every any circumstances whereby the police could get a warrant for a semen sample (inspired by an SVU ep); the consensus was no because there’s no reason why they’d ever need semen as opposed to blood. > [@Kimballkid](#): > > Bolding mine. > > It’s a lawsuit, which is a civil matter, so it would be a win-win for the Plaintiff. True, and this being the US even if everything happened exactly as the Plaintiff said it did it’s hard to imagine any of these rapists even being criminally charged let alone convicted. > [@Musicat](#): > > I’m wondering if imposing the title “Doctor” or “Nurse” removes the ability of the anointed to read. Could no one (with one exception) read the warrant and see that it was for the wrong time and the wrong place?.. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Is the doctor qualified to understand and evaluate the search warrant? Or does the hospital have its counsel on call to review such warrants as they arise (even if in the middle of the night?)? I wonder what the hospital’s procedure is for such cases. That’s what I was thinking. I don’t expect anyone from the legal department to be on site in the middle of the night, but surely they could’ve called someone to come in or faxed them a copy of the warrant. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/134 "2013-11-09T00:11:46Z")
In general, how much subconscious influence does the handler have on the police dog? So if the handler wants to find a positive result on a suspect, does the police dog make a false report more often? Have there been studies of such things? (Let me know if the question doesn’t make sense. But I’m thinking of something like [that horse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans) that appeared to be able to count, but was actually responding to subconscious cues from his handler.) And after fully reading the article on Clever Hans, I see that this effect was seen in police dogs. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/135 "2013-11-09T00:17:45Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > I wonder if there’s some kind of “deal” going on between these cops and this hospital? I don’t imagine BOGO works here. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/136 "2013-11-09T00:29:56Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Is the doctor qualified to understand and evaluate the search warrant? Or does the hospital have its counsel on call to review such warrants as they arise (even if in the middle of the night?)? I wonder what the hospital’s procedure is for such cases. I wonder, too. Could the procedure be, “If no legal counsel is available, we will assume the warrant is valid without question and proceed.”? How long would it take for the word to get out that you can have a prisoner fucked up without a valid warrant as long as you do it after 10PM? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/137 "2013-11-09T00:33:22Z")
I haven’t read this whole thread yet, so forgive me (or Pit me) if this has been mentioned already . . . Has anybody noticed that these forced body cavity searches for drugs, on flimsy pretexts, have become commonplace? There was an earlier similar incident in the same county, initiated by the same officers. There are similar reports from other jurisdictions, even in other states. There are reports of body cavity searches being done _roadside, on-the-scene_ :eek: Article I just saw: [Police turn routine traffic stops into cavity searches](http://news.yahoo.com/police-turn-routine-traffic-stops-into-cavity-searches-201433510.html) ETA: > [@](#): > > Complaints about police conducting public full-body cavity and strip searches, sometimes without warrants, have popped up in Texas, Wisconsin and Kansas in recent months, alarming civil rights attorneys and advocates. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/138 "2013-11-09T01:02:17Z")
We’re extremely white–that’s right– We walk with our buttocks extremely tight (Jim Belushi’s “White Guy Rap” from _Saturday Night Live_) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/139 "2013-11-09T03:02:23Z")
So, when the cops turned on their christmas tree lights, this guy grabbed his drugs, opened up his trousers, rose up enough in the seat to render his butt accessible, and then crammed the stuff up his Nixon? And then he pulled over. OK. Got it. Or wait, no, he had it up his butt the whole time. He says “Well, going over to Fred’s house, get high, better ram the dope up my ass, because I get stopped every time I drive out for a six pack.” Two bits says he dissed them, and they just wanted him to know just how hard they could fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255/140 "2013-11-09T04:06:16Z")
On one of the TV station [websites](http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S3209305.shtml?cat=500#.Un20oOKQNhc), I found a copy of the actual complaint. According to it, “Defendant Chavez [one of the police officers] claims to have noticed Plaintiff’s ‘posture to be erect and he kept his legs together.’” It seems to amount to good posture being suspicious in and of itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clenching-your-buttocks-during-a-terry-stop-prepare-for-your-anal-probing/673255.md?page=8)