# Cleveland Browns turnaround bandwagon **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 5, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813 "2018-09-05T17:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/221 "2018-12-17T19:53:05Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The worst thing they could do is to keep the carousel turning. That would only mess Mayfield up, perhaps permanently. Agreed, that’s why I suggested they need a stable HC situation. Firing Jackson was the right move but they need to either commit to Williams or hire someone that will work in the long term. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/222 "2018-12-18T00:08:07Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Who out there is more likely than Williams to take the team to 13-3? I mean, if Bill Belichik were looking for work then sure, sorry Gregg but we’re moving on. But who is actually available? Mike McCarthy? You only hire someone else if you think he’s actually an improvement. The last thing the Browns need to do is emulate the Raiders moves on coaching. I think there are plenty of offensive or defensive coordinators that could fill the bill, quite possibly better than Greg Williams. Williams has, as I recall, some baggage. And his resume is very hit and miss, at best. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/223 "2018-12-18T03:44:49Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I think there are plenty of offensive or defensive coordinators that could fill the bill, quite possibly better than Greg Williams. Williams has, as I recall, some baggage. And his resume is very hit and miss, at best. But ride the hot hand though. And I think Mayfield has proven he can withstand a bizarre, crazy coaching change mid-stream and keep the team together (as a rookie!), as well as continue to be talented. As much grief as Hue must be getting, his last two drafts were not terrible. Whether or not Hue gets sole or most of the credit for that is unknown though. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/224 "2018-12-18T03:47:38Z")
Hue had almost nothing to do with this last draft, that was all Dorsey, and not a big role in the previous drafts. His big plan at QB was AJ McCarron. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/225 "2018-12-18T14:40:59Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > You only keep him if you think that he’s the coach to lead you to 13-3. First, the team has to get to the point where they can then get to 13-3. The coaching skills needed to make a bad team decent are different from the ones needed to make a decent team dominant, and they rarely co-exist in the same person. Same goes for GM skills, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/226 "2018-12-18T16:37:51Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Hue had almost nothing to do with this last draft, that was all Dorsey, and not a big role in the previous drafts. His big plan at QB was AJ McCarron. Listen to Hue and you’d think he had nothing to do with any draft. After all, he wanted Wentz, Watson, Mahomes, and every other QB who’d been decent. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/227 "2018-12-19T16:54:58Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > First, the team has to get to the point where they can then get to 13-3. According to a sports columnist in the Cleveland Plain Dealer yesterday, fans can expect a 12-4 record and division title next year. Seems a mite premature. Playoffs (_Playoffs?_), OK. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/228 "2018-12-19T17:52:58Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Agreed, that’s why I suggested they need a stable HC situation. Firing Jackson was the right move but they need to either commit to Williams or hire someone that will work in the long term. The problem if they stick with Williams and the offense does well, Kitchens is gone after next year. That’s why the strategy seems to be Rookie QB + Offensive HC or Veteran QB + Defensive HC. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/229 "2018-12-20T16:01:45Z")
Still feel bad about Josh Gordon going to the Patriots? He’s about to be suspended for yet again another drug violation. This time, however, he’s not the Browns’ cancer, he’s the Patriots’. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/230 "2018-12-20T17:55:59Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Still feel bad about Josh Gordon going to the Patriots? He’s about to be suspended for yet again another drug violation. This time, however, he’s not the Browns’ cancer, he’s the Patriots’. I get the feeling Bill won’t put up with those shenanigans, and Gordon’s not going to be on the team for long. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/231 "2018-12-20T18:10:02Z")
Colin Cowherd thinks the Browns should go hard after Jim Harbaugh. I completely disagree. He’d be more of a distraction than Cleveland needs. ---
**Author:** ![HongKongFooey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c4cdca/32.png) [@HongKongFooey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HongKongFooey)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/232 "2018-12-20T18:39:23Z")
Long time, no see Beef! I have to admit that with the Dorsey hiring you guys really have turned it around. Mayfield’s ability to read the defense and audible to smart plays is not a good sign for the rest of us. Damned shame it all comes after Joe Thomas is gone but congrats to you guys. I hope you’re always behind the Steelers of course but glad to see the turnaround. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/233 "2018-12-20T21:04:42Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Colin Cowherd thinks the Browns should go hard after Jim Harbaugh. I completely disagree. He’d be more of a distraction than Cleveland needs. Yeah, drama seems to follow him everywhere he goes. He’s had success but it might not be worth it. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/234 "2018-12-20T21:14:04Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > I grew up in NW Ohio. It was both Lions and Browns territory for coverage by the media. > Lesson number one - The “this is our year” turnaround bandwagon for both teams usually ends up burning in the ditch. > > Be happy if the young players still look good when the games count and their opponents are trying to win. Hopefully those younger players show development. If the team is keeping games close enough to be interesting it’s pretty awesome regardless of record. If they win enough of those close games to not be mathematically eliminated 8-10 games into the season it was a great turnaround to build on. With the benefit of hindsight, it hasn’t been a bad year in terms of realistic turnarounds. The rookie QB is performing well giving long term hope they can keep building around him. Some of the other young players show promise. The team is still not mathematically eliminated from the playoffs after 14 games. 6-7-1 isn’t great but it is more wins than the last two seasons combined. Even two of the losses were from their 4 overtime games. They’ve kept it relatively close on average - 309 points scored against 348 given up over the season. IMO that’s a pretty good turnaround. It’s just a longer trip than the bandwagon could expect to travel in a single season. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/235 "2018-12-21T01:14:21Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > 6-7-1 isn’t great but it is more wins than the last two seasons combined. Correction… Last **three** seasons combined. Here is their record from 2015-2017: 2015: 3-13-0 2016: 1-15-0 2017: 0-16-0 That’s a combined record of 4-44 over three years. That’s a pretty bad stretch. They weren’t as bad in 2014, when they went 7-9, and they’re only one win away from having a better record than that year. They next get the Bengals at home which you have to think is a winnable game. Unfortunately for them to officially have a winning season they’d also need to beat the Ravens in Baltimore the final week which is a tall order. But since reforming in 1999, they’ve only had two winning seasons so even a 7-8-1 record would be a really good year for them historically, and something good to build off of next year. They’d also be finishing 3rd in their division with that record, because if they beat the Bengals this week the best record that Cincinnati could have by the end of the year would be 7-9. The last time the Browns finished in 3rd place was 2010. So this next game is pretty important. I personally will be rooting for the Browns on Sunday because I love seeing a struggling team improve themselves. (At least in the AFC.) ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/236 "2018-12-21T01:55:33Z")
My wife’s family are Cleveland fans. I predicted they would get 6 wins at start of season primarily due to Baker Mayfield (and they had close losses last year). They all laughed at me. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2018, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/237 "2018-12-21T22:37:12Z")
They’re not laughing now. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/238 "2018-12-23T19:51:16Z")
Well this is a solid beating, which is nice to see. Williams is not my dream coach, but if they win out I can’t see replacing him. I wouldn’t want to risk shaking things up if we can avoid it. I’m not too worried about him being bad at his first HC job. It was 15(?) years ago, and he’s probably learned a lot since then. There are a decent amount of success stories for HCs their second time around. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/239 "2018-12-23T20:44:57Z")
Wouldn’t it be the most Browns thing to blow a 23-0 lead and lose. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/240 "2018-12-23T20:51:46Z")
There was never a serious risk of losing. It was clearly just some garbage time scoring. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813.md?page=13)