# Cleveland Browns turnaround bandwagon **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 5, 2018, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813 "2018-09-05T17:53:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/121 "2018-10-21T18:20:18Z")
I didn’t get it. After a hard fought overtime win this team came out twice like they don’t give a shit. Is 2 wins enough of an improvement to coast on now? ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/122 "2018-10-21T20:56:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I didn’t get it. After a hard fought overtime win this team came out twice like they don’t give a shit. Is 2 wins enough of an improvement to coast on now? Two wins and a tie! Don’t forget! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/123 "2018-10-22T00:03:17Z")
They almost managed another tie. Only they Browned it away. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/124 "2018-10-22T17:47:24Z")
Rumors are starting to fly about ownership being quite unhappy with Hue. Not sure what to make of it. It’d be weird if they had the patience for the last two seasons and are only beginning to act now. But maybe Hue made specific promises about number of wins or something to save his job and we’re not there. Not sure what we’re looking at - Haley takes over during the bye? Not sure what I even want. The losses this year have not been based primarily around coaching blunders for the most part as they often were in years past. We haven’t won any games due to good coaching either, of course. But a couple of missed kicks and other minor plays and the Browns could easily have 4-5 wins right now - which obviously would let Hue keep his job - so I’m not sure it really makes sense to go firing him now. Maybe he’s losing the locker room? That’s what you could always say to defend him in the past - somehow through 2 nearly winless seasons he never lost the locker room and the team never gave up. Maybe being so frustratingly close to being good is driving people crazy and he’s starting to lose it. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/125 "2018-10-22T18:56:17Z")
I give Hue a pass for his first two years, even 0-16. But this year, I think you can make a case that the team is not as bad as their record. The biggest thing holding them back is sloppiness. Yesterday the Browns committed 14 penalties. They are tied for league lead in penalties. I hate to say it because I really like Hue, but somebody has got be accountable and the team just looks undisciplined. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/126 "2018-10-23T14:50:38Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I give Hue a pass for his first two years, even 0-16. But this year, I think you can make a case that the team is not as bad as their record. The biggest thing holding them back is sloppiness. Yesterday the Browns committed 14 penalties. They are tied for league lead in penalties. I hate to say it because I really like Hue, but somebody has got be accountable and the team just looks undisciplined. What’s he supposed to do to stop it? Threaten to bench those committing fouls? Threaten to trade away malcontents? Changing a problem like that takes time. It requires that the players begin to feel like they can rely on skill to win, not taking silly chances to avoid losing. Unless the coach has a big stick, which I doubt Jackson does in Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/127 "2018-10-23T15:31:28Z")
Yeah, I don’t know what can be done now. Discipline needs to be instilled much earlier, like throughout training camp. I don’t know how much is really Hue vs. something else, but when teams play sloppy or sluggish (like Cleveland against San Diego) that always falls back on the coach. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/128 "2018-10-23T16:47:07Z")
I still see the Browns as a 1-31 (over 2 years) team that doesn’t look that bad this year. That still has to count for something. You can’t rest on your laurels or anything but if they can fix their biggest problems and build on the talent they have they might be pretty good next year. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/129 "2018-10-23T17:30:15Z")
A team that went 1-31 in the last two seasons that now has two wins, a tie and four overtime games out of 7 total games this season isn’t a mark of a coach losing the locker room or the team giving up. Quite the contrary, in fact. If the Browns fire Jackson _ **now** _, it would be extremely bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/130 "2018-10-23T18:31:55Z")
For the record, I definitely would not want to fire Hue Jackson now. I’d like to at least play out this season. And I don’t want to put an arbitrary win number out there as a target. But you have to consider how the team is playing and whether they’re progressing, regressing, or staying the same. You could argue they took steps backwards over the last 2 weeks. Now we’ve got to go to Pittsburgh and I expect the team to play well, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/131 "2018-10-23T18:51:15Z")
The problem with considering these results an improvement and therefore keeping Hue is that he set the bar extremely low himself and he’d be rewarded for having done that. Winning 1 game in your first 2 years makes pretty much anything an improvement, so if we end up finishing like 5-10-1, that’s obviously a big improvement over the last 2 years. But the relevant question isn’t “is the team improving?” but “where would the team be now if you had a different coach than Hue Jackson?” - if a good coaching staff could get this team to 9-7 this year instead, then Jackson is a failure even if 5-10-1 is an improvement on his previous years. I’ve heard, but not sure if it’s actually true, that Hue’s contract specifies a big payout if he’s fired in his first 3 years. Part of an incentive to entice what was at the time a widely sought after coaching commodity - close to a guarantee of getting three years to turn it around. If that’s the case, then it provides some explanation as to why ownership seems to love Hue no matter what - maybe they can’t afford the payout and they’re stuck with him until the end of this year. It’s also beneficial to not be seen as an ownership that will get rid of coaches in a year or two, being given a full chance looks better to future coach prospects. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/132 "2018-10-23T22:28:20Z")
I’ve thought about that. Hue _was_ the coach when the team was historically bad so you can’t quite say he’s a great coach for turning the team around. Because isn’t he turning it around from himself? I know he inherited a long-term mess but it was a mess that got even worse under his leadership, at least at first. But still my gut says you don’t yank the rug out from someone who’s getting up. I’d recommend giving him one more year, assuming they don’t just lose out the rest of this season. If they finish anywhere near 50% I’d give him some more rope and he can either use that rope to pull the team up and improve more next year (a winning season?) or hang himself if they don’t improve further or if they regress. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/133 "2018-10-25T19:20:21Z")
In an unprecedented move it looks like the official that missed the obvious-to-everyone false start by the Chargers, [has been fired by the NFL.](http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25082276/nfl-fires-judge-hugo-cruz-effective-immediately) In that article it states the NFL has never fired an official mid season like this before for poor performance. This could be the break that the Browns need to get over the top! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/134 "2018-10-25T20:02:27Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > This could be the break that the Browns need to get over the top! They now officially won that game now right? I think that’s how the football game works. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/135 "2018-10-26T01:31:59Z")
The Browns would be stupid to fire Hue now, whether he has some contractual payout or not. The team is in a fragile mental state and needs solid, unwavering and committed leadership, and IMO, since Hue used to coach for my team, and has been a head coach before (and got fired from the Raiders kinda bizarrely after posting an 8-8 record his first season), he is providing that. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/136 "2018-10-26T21:17:33Z")
And the NFL also admitted that a helmet hit on Mayfield should have been called. > **[NFL Admits Helmet Hit That Baker Mayfield Complained About Should Have Been...](https://deadspin.com/nfl-admits-helmet-hit-that-baker-mayfield-complained-ab-1830033840)** > > In the fourth quarter of last weekend’s game against the Buccaneers, Browns QB Baker Mayfield ripped off a 35-yard run. As he began to slide to the turf, Bucs safety Jordan Whitehead zipped to the ball and laid him out with a flying helmet-to-helmet... ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/137 "2018-10-26T21:35:57Z")
Yeah, there’s a lot of “woops, sorry Browns, somehow we missed super obvious things even under review and you got fucked over and lost. Yes, I know we sent this same apology every week since the start of the season, but don’t worry, you’ll probably get them through the rest of the season too.” going around. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/138 "2018-10-27T20:21:36Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Yeah, there’s a lot of “woops, sorry Browns, somehow we missed super obvious things even under review and you got fucked over and lost. Yes, I know we sent this same apology every week since the start of the season, but don’t worry, you’ll probably get them through the rest of the season too.” going around. Yeah, your team really does seem to be getting the shaft quite a bit. Like in the Stealers thread, it is hard to believe that there’s not something fishy going on with the officiating. I’d be hard pressed to believe that the amount of times the Browns got screwed was solely due to incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Isosleepy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/isosleepy/32/479_2.png) [@Isosleepy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isosleepy)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/139 "2018-10-28T20:32:39Z")
I am partisan and so might not see it, but I find it hard to see the officiating of the Steelers-Browns game as particularly anti-Browns. I’m afraid that the turn-around bandwagon just has, well, turned around. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813/140 "2018-10-29T05:18:02Z")
No, no egregious officiating this week, just an ass kicking. Kind of refreshing in a way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-browns-turnaround-bandwagon/820813.md?page=8)