# Cleveland fans hang tough **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 25, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942 "2019-11-25T01:24:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/1 "2019-11-25T01:24:53Z")
I don’t know if the televised game showed anything but this made the local news. Some tailgating Browns fans had a pinata dressed as Pittsburgh quarterback Mason Rudolph. They took turns while blindfolded trying to hit it with a Steelers helmet. I think a new tradition has been born. There’s no remorse in the Dog Pound Dennis ---
**Author:** ![Harrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac8455/32.png) [@Harrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harrington)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/2 "2019-11-25T01:37:20Z")
I posted this in the Steelers thread and will repost it here. [Browns fans swing helmet at Rudolph effigy](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21991905&postcount=157) > [@](#): > > Before Sunday’s game with the Dolphins, Browns owner Dee Haslam was photographed with Garrett’s No. 95 on her cap in a show of support. They are blindly supporting team colors. I imagine they are the type of fans who think every penalty called against their team is bullshit, and every incomplete pass by their team is because the other team interfered with the receiver. Rudolph wasn’t hurt, so Garrett’s actions aren’t significant and he was unjustly punished. ---
**Author:** ![Personal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Personal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Personal)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/3 "2019-11-25T02:42:57Z")
They were as accurate as Rudolph was today. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/4 "2019-11-25T14:27:53Z")
> [@Harrington](#): > > Rudolph wasn’t hurt, so Garrett’s actions aren’t significant and he was unjustly punished. I have to admit that I’m a bit perplexed by this whole thing. Not because Garrett’s actions weren’t worthy of punishment, or totally out of the pale- they were entirely unacceptable. What’s got me so perplexed is that in college, Myles Garrett was NOT a thug, brute, etc… He was generally considered a class act from what I could tell, and was more notable for being something of a nerd and of a literary bent than anything else beyond being a football player. This is NOT normal behavior for him- I can’t help but wonder what got his goat so badly. Cleveland fans have been their own unique brand of obnoxious for decades; remember the Dawg Pound back in the 1980s? They apparently used to throw D batteries at the visiting players when they came out of the tunnel back in the 1980s and engage in other moronic shenanigans like that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/5 "2019-11-25T21:26:57Z")
Can’t a change in personality, and in particular an increase in aggression, be one result of CTE? Yeah, it usually takes longer to manifest, but it doesn’t seem out of the question. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/6 "2019-11-25T22:07:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Can’t a change in personality, and in particular an increase in aggression, be one result of CTE? Yeah, it usually takes longer to manifest, but it doesn’t seem out of the question. > **[Chronic traumatic encephalopathy - Symptoms and causes](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/chronic-traumatic-encephalopathy/symptoms-causes/syc-20370921)** > > This type of brain degeneration is likely caused by recurrent concussions, but the disorder isn't well understood. > [@The Mayo Clinic](#): > > **Personality or mood changes.** See your doctor if depression, anxiety, aggression or impulsivity occur. So yes, it can definitely be a result of CTE. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/7 "2019-11-26T00:57:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > What’s got me so perplexed is that in college, Myles Garrett was NOT a thug, brute, etc… He was generally considered a class act from what I could tell, and was more notable for being something of a nerd and of a literary bent than anything else beyond being a football player. > > **This is NOT normal behavior for him- I can’t help but wonder what got his goat so badly**. Well, there were those allegations surrounding the usage of a certain word and all… …and I think Garrett is the same guy, no CTE. Sometimes shit just happens. Hell, even the normally unflappable AJ Green went apeshit on Jalen Ramsey and body slammed him to the ground, then threw punchers at him. ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/8 "2019-11-26T04:52:40Z")
The problem with being a huge fan is that your anger often ends up way, _way_ off the mark. Why the hell is anyone mad at _Mason Rudolph?_ I mean, if he faked an injury or oversold the hit, like you used to see in soccer all the time, I could maybe see it. But he immediately made it clear that he wasn’t badly hurt, just extremely upset. It was the NFL front office that set the punishment and refused to budge on it. Why isn’t anyone making effigies of **them?** Oh, by the way, he got replaced midway through the last game. Yeah, that video’s going to age _really_ well. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/9 "2019-11-26T15:51:08Z")
> [@Harrington](#): > > They are blindly supporting team colors. I imagine they are the type of fans who think every penalty called against their team is bullshit, and every incomplete pass by their team is because the other team interfered with the receiver. … So, in other words, they’re sports fans. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/10 "2019-11-28T05:15:35Z")
Stay classy, Cleveland. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/11 "2019-11-30T02:40:27Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Well, there were those allegations surrounding the usage of a certain word and all… > > …and I think Garrett is the same guy, no CTE. Sometimes shit just happens. Hell, even the normally unflappable AJ Green went apeshit on Jalen Ramsey and body slammed him to the ground, then threw punchers at him. I think the helmet incident was completely unacceptable. The next sentence doesn’t excuse it in any way. At the time of the tackle it looked like “something” happened between the 2 of them on the ground. Mason Rudolph looked like he was twisting and pulling on Myles Garrett’s helmet. If this is accurate that explains why Garrett pulled the helmet off of Rudolph and didn’t just engage in the usually shoving/punching display of fighting. Again, I’m saying it was COMPLETELY unacceptable behavior. And once again, I’m saying it was COMPLETELY unacceptable behavior ---
**Author:** ![Harrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac8455/32.png) [@Harrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harrington)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/12 "2019-12-01T19:39:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > At the time of the tackle it looked like “something” happened between the 2 of them on the ground. Rudolph was upset because Garrett, apparently not knowing Rudolph had thrown the ball, continued to tackle him. Garrett was upset because Rudolph inexplicably tried to rip his helmet off. Garrett enacted the Code of Hammurabi. Rudolph should know that sometimes players, while tackling him, won’t know he’s thrown the ball, especially on a snap throw. Both players were idiots. Garrett was the bigger idiot. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PMHlURlxus) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/13 "2019-12-01T23:38:42Z")
Football is destroying my city. There are signs and T-shirts all over the place saying “Pittsburgh started it”. I was at my sister’s house today for Thanksgiving dinner, and her whole family was insisting that Pittsburgh started it and that Rudolph deserved everything that he got, and the only reason it was impossible to find video showing the part where Rudolph started it is because everyone in the NFL and the media is out to get Cleveland. All of those folks who say that sports are important and should take away time from things like school because of the important life lessons they teach are delusional. These are the sorts of lessons sports are teaching us. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/14 "2019-12-02T05:25:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Football is destroying my city. There are signs and T-shirts all over the place saying “Pittsburgh started it”. I was at my sister’s house today for Thanksgiving dinner, and her whole family was insisting that Pittsburgh started it and that Rudolph deserved everything that he got, and the only reason it was impossible to find video showing the part where Rudolph started it is because everyone in the NFL and the media is out to get Cleveland. > > All of those folks who say that sports are important and should take away time from things like school because of the important life lessons they teach are delusional. These are the sorts of lessons sports are teaching us. I don’t know how you came to that conclusion. I could give wit one about which team wins the super bowl. But I played sports in HS and we were expected to conduct ourselves in a respectful manner just as we would in class. If a bunch of spoiled millionaires can’t behave that’s no more the fault of a HS coach as it is a math teacher. I think Garrett deserves whatever the league throws at him but I also think Rudolph’s behavior should have been addressed. Maybe it was and I missed it. Doesn’t sound like it from the Cleveland fans response. Oh, and as an aside, we just had a HS player headbutt a referee. it’s going to court because he injured the referee. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/15 "2019-12-02T15:16:04Z")
It’s not that the spoiled millionaires aren’t behaving themselves. It’s that they’re inspiring a whole city to not behave themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/16 "2019-12-02T16:04:14Z")
My hope is that the shirts hold a bit of self-mockery. “Pittsburgh started it” is so over-the-top in its childishness (it’s a phrase often evoked just to illustrate the lack of maturity or the weakness in an argument) that I have to believe it’s a bit tongue-in-cheek. Cleveland fans are famously miserable and tend to embrace how bad they have suffered, as a point of pride, so it wouldn’t surprise me. If the shirts are sincere then they’re unintentionally hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/17 "2019-12-02T16:05:57Z")
My sister’s family were completely sincere about it. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-fans-hang-tough/843942/18 "2019-12-03T12:28:14Z")
Stolen from Pittsburgh Dad (YouTube channel) after Steelers beat the Browns in week 13: “Cleveland’s offseason? Pittsburgh started it.”