# Cleveland Indians considering a name change \[Edit: It's "Guardians"\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [July 4, 2020, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323 "2020-07-04T20:53:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/162 "2020-12-19T16:01:51Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Back in the early days, before sports became a full profession in their own right, the athletes would still have needed day jobs, and most of the players on the Green Bay football team would have been packers. Similarly, see the Pittsburgh Steelers and the (former) Houston Oilers. The Oilers were formed in 1960. I can reasonably assume George Blanda and Billy Cannon weren’t working an oil derrick with the leathernecks in the off-season. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/163 "2020-12-19T16:09:57Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Is that a conure in your pocket or are you happy to see me? No, I’m just fiddling with my cockatiel. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/164 "2020-12-19T16:31:35Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The Oilers were formed in 1960. I can reasonably assume George Blanda and Billy Cannon weren’t working an oil derrick with the leathernecks in the off-season. Teams named after notable local professions are certainly not unusual; there used to be two Oilers teams, of course, but there’s now just one, plus you have the Milwaukee Brewers, Texas Rangers, Dallas Cowboys, San Francisco 49ers, and I’m sure a few others. All were generally named though, not specifically named after a company, like the Packers. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/165 "2020-12-19T16:35:08Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > No. As mentioned, it’s named after the [Indian Packing Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Packing_Company), which donated $500 to Curly Lambeau (who worked for them) for uniforms and equipment in 1919. The company required him to name the team after it in return for the donation. What @Colibri said – the Packers were, in fact, originally sponsored by a meat packing company. When they joined the NFL in 1921 (after playing independently in 1919 and 1920), they were known as the Acme Packers, as, by that point, Indian Packing had been taken over by another company, Acme Packing. This is why, when the Packers wear throwback uniforms, you’ll see “Acme Packers” on some of the hats and sweatshirts worn on the sidelines. (signed) kenobi\_65, Packer shareholder ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/166 "2020-12-19T17:49:21Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > The Oilers were formed in 1960. I can reasonably assume George Blanda and Billy Cannon weren’t working an oil derrick with the leathernecks in the off-season. 🙄 A nit: I think you mean roughnecks. Leathernecks are U.S. Marines. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/167 "2020-12-19T19:39:54Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Teams named after notable local professions are certainly not unusual Certainly. But Chronos was suggesting the players themselves held those jobs in the off-season. That was probably true for the 1933 Steelers, extremely unlikely for the 1960 Oilers. > [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I think you mean roughnecks Yes, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/168 "2020-12-19T19:51:34Z")
The Oilers might not have been literal oilers, but they were named in the tradition of teams named after the local blue-collar industry. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/169 "2020-12-19T20:27:13Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Hartford Dark Blues Hartford played in Hartford for only one season, 1876. In 1877, the team moved to Brooklyn, but it kept its Hartford name. In most tables these days, they are called the “Hartford Dark Blues” in 1876 and the “Brooklyn Hartfords” in 1877, but really they were just “Hartford” or “Hartfords” for both seasons. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Additionally, the success of the 1869-1870 Cincinnati Red Stockings solidified sock color as a popular way of identifying a club. Indeed sock color became such an important part of club identity that in 1882, the National League mandated sock colors for the teams: Boston - red Buffalo - grey Chicago- white Cleveland - navy blue Detroit - old gold Providence - light blue Troy - green Worcester - brown _BUT_ in 1881 and 1882, cap and jersey colors were designated _by player position_!! So all shortstops, for example, wore the same caps and jerseys—only the _socks_ designated which teams they played for. That’s how important sock color is to baseball, which is why it burns me up so much that so many players today cover up their socks. _Baseball is about the socks!!_\* ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/170 "2020-12-19T20:34:11Z")
If you want to win a baseball trivia bet with someone, ask them what the St. Louis MLB team is named after. Not just what the nickname is; where the got it. No, they’re not named after the bird. They’re named after the color of the trim of their socks. They didn’t start using birds in their logos for over twenty yeas after adopting the name. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/171 "2020-12-19T21:01:11Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So the 1876 National League’s clubs were: > > Athletic > Boston > Chicago > Cincinnati > Hartford > Louisville > Mutual > Saint Louis Just to make a point about how poor sports references/histories have traditionally been, when I was a kid, and for several decades afterwards, I thought that the National League’s original teams were: Boston Braves Brooklyn Dodgers Chicago Cubs Cincinnati Reds New York Giants Philadelphia Phillies Pittsburgh Pirates Saint Louis Cardinals This lineup of clubs wasn’t correct until _ **1900** _, and only about half the nicknames were in common use then, and the notion of “official” nicknames wouldn’t dominate for a few more decades. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/172 "2020-12-19T21:17:10Z")
Also, trivia: Two of those 1876 clubs are still in existence today: Chicago (White Stockings) exists as the Chicago Cubs and Boston (Red Stockings) exists as the Atlanta Braves. Today’s Chicago White Sox and Boston Red Sox swiped their names from the National League teams. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/173 "2020-12-19T21:21:30Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > No, they’re not named after the bird. They’re named after the color of the trim of their socks. They didn’t start using birds in their logos for over twenty yeas after adopting the name. Here’s an odd connection. The name of the color is derived from the robes of the prelates of the Catholic Church. The Cardinals were originally called the Brown Stockings. The team that currently wears brown stockings is the Padres, also named after Catholic priests.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/174 "2020-12-19T21:21:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Teams named after notable local professions are certainly not unusual; there used to be two Oilers teams, of course, but there’s now just one, plus you have the Milwaukee Brewers, Texas Rangers, Dallas Cowboys, San Francisco 49ers, and I’m sure a few others. All were generally named though, not specifically named after a company, like the Packers. Seattle Mariners are also named after a common local profession. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/175 "2020-12-19T21:24:50Z")
And before them the Seattle Pilots, now the Brewers. Sadly, today the pirate industry has largely disappeared from the Pittsburgh area. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/176 "2020-12-19T21:28:52Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Sadly, today the pirate industry has largely disappeared from the Pittsburgh area. I think the legend is that they picked up that nickname when the “pirated” players from another team. Which reminds me: For years, the Kansas City Athletics were owned by a guy who was a New York Yankees fan, and he routinely let the Yankees have his best players for cheap (Mantle and Maris might have been among them?). I also recall reading about a similar situation in Japan, in which one of the other team owners was a Yomiuri Giants fan, and he would root for the Giants against his own team. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/177 "2020-12-19T21:33:54Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think the legend is that they picked up that nickname when the “pirated” players from another team. Yes, I’ve heard that one. Early team nicknames were often strange. Thankfully the Brooklyn Bridegrooms, now the Dodgers, didn’t keep that name, bestowed after several team members got married around the same time (although Dodgers, from Trolley Dodgers, is weird enough itself). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/178 "2020-12-19T21:34:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …Sadly, today the pirate industry has largely disappeared from the Pittsburgh area. They’re still there; they’re just all online. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/179 "2020-12-19T21:40:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Which reminds me: For years, the Kansas City Athletics were owned by a guy who was a New York Yankees fan, and he routinely let the Yankees have his best players for cheap (Mantle and Maris might have been among them?). Mantle came up to the Yankees in 1951, before the A’s were sold to a friend of Yankee owner Dan Topping in 1954. But yes, [there were several lopsided trades in the years after that,](https://www.baseball-almanac.com/corner/c042001b.shtml) including Maris. Many people complained that the A’s were virtually a Yankees farm team. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/180 "2020-12-19T22:45:22Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And before them the Seattle Pilots, now the Brewers. How about the New England Patriots? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323/181 "2020-12-19T22:58:17Z")
With Pirates, Buccaneers, Raiders, and Vikings, the profession represented by the most team names is evidently thievery.😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-considering-a-name-change-edit-its-guardians/914323.md?page=10)