# Cleveland Indians remove Chief Wahoo logo by 2019 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754 "2018-01-29T19:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![howye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9adbd/32.png) [@howye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/howye)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/21 "2018-01-29T22:09:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Sorry, but the Chief Wahoo logo wins that embarrassing competition, hands down. > > Sure, rename the Redskins too (not that pro football should even exist anymore, but since it does, go ahead and rename the Redskins), but that caricature of Native Americans is horribly insulting. I disagree, but can’t say you are wrong. The ownership of the Cleveland team has been working to this point for some time. It will be interesting to see if Atlanta rebrands with their move to a new stadium. Of course the team should do what it can to retain the rights to the logo. They know if they don’t it will be all over the place and not in a good way. Sell it on limited merchandise and let it phase out over time. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/22 "2018-01-29T22:23:13Z")
Here’s an interesting and somewhat relevant [article](http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/346278/Trademark/Maintaining+US+Trademark+Registrations+Small+Uses+by+Foreign+Owners+Sufficient) about minimum use in order to maintain a trademark. [large chunk of prior post edited due to newfound understanding of the difference between a trademark and a service mark] It does indeed sound like the trademark owner can’t just make “token” use of the trademark merely to hold on to it. There has to be some legitimate attempt to use it, such as sales involving the trademark. I had hoped there would be some easy way around it. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/23 "2018-01-29T22:28:07Z")
What about selling historical baseball cards, books, magazines and videos with old images on them? If they let the trademark lapse, will that mean they no longer have control over licensing those images? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/24 "2018-01-29T23:15:42Z")
I have to say, I’ve heard a lot of white people complain about how the logo is offensive to Native Americans, but I’ve heard very little of Native Americans themselves making the same complaint. And the most vigorous complaint I’ve heard came from a white guy who, at the time, was wearing a Notre Dame Fighting Irish shirt and Boston Celtics-branded shorts. And yes, it’s a caricature, but then, so is every team mascot and every cartoon character. All that said, if they do phase out the logo, or even change the name, it doesn’t hurt me any. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/25 "2018-01-29T23:26:51Z")
[From the AP story](https://apnews.com/6a6477f583ee4b95a230ae031f31c1aa/Cleveland-Indians-dropping-Chief-Wahoo-logo-from-uniforms): > [@](#): > > Every year, Native American groups have protested outside the stadium before the home opener in hopes of getting the Indians not only to abolish Chief Wahoo but to change the team name. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/26 "2018-01-29T23:27:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I have to say, I’ve heard a lot of white people complain about how the logo is offensive to Native Americans, but I’ve heard very little of Native Americans themselves making the same complaint. And the most vigorous complaint I’ve heard came from a white guy who, at the time, was wearing a Notre Dame Fighting Irish shirt and Boston Celtics-branded shorts. And yes, it’s a caricature, but then, so is every team mascot and every cartoon character. > > All that said, if they do phase out the logo, or even change the name, it doesn’t hurt me any. My two kids are Native American (as is their mother). They think the logo is offensive. They’re not on the street protesting about it (they recognize there are other, more important, issues in the world), but they don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/27 "2018-01-30T01:28:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I have to say, I’ve heard a lot of white people complain about how the logo is offensive to Native Americans, but I’ve heard very little of Native Americans themselves making the same complaint. Let me help you. [Cite 1](https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=2rhQAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ltAMAAAAIBAJ&dq=chief%20wahoo%20protest&pg=5731%2C2180138) [Cite 2](https://books.google.com/books?id=eLYV1qN_l7MC&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q&f=false) [Cite 3](https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=KqVJAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mg0NAAAAIBAJ&pg=6178%2C2496892) [Cite 4](https://indiancountrymedianetwork.com/news/standing-up-and-staying-put-four-decades-of-protesting-the-cleveland-indians-chief-wahoo/) [Cite 5](https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/05/08/for-maine-tribe-lasting-sting/5InebLcSdUdRXI5EWKKimO/story.html) That took about ten minutes. If you need more, just holler. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/28 "2018-01-30T02:07:52Z")
OK, you’ve made your point. So why, when there’s a news story about uproar against the name or logo, do they always interview the white activists who are offended on someone else’s behalf, instead of one of the Native American ones? ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/29 "2018-01-30T02:22:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, you’ve made your point. So why, when there’s a news story about uproar against the name or logo, do they always interview the white activists who are offended on someone else’s behalf, instead of one of the Native American ones? ??? Did you read the cites provided? Clearly “they” don’t “always” interview white activists instead of Native American ones. You have several examples right here just above your post. If you’re wondering why some or even many articles about offensive team names quote white activists rather than Native activists, I would suspect that it has to do mainly with who (Generally white) journalists are most likely to know and are most comfortable talking to. It doesn’t seem like evidence that Native Americans don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/30 "2018-01-30T02:45:20Z")
Americans have an extremely long history of not giving two shits about what Native Americans think on any subject. Or any minorities, for that matter. Shamefully, it sometimes takes angry white people to get something done. ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/31 "2018-01-30T03:06:09Z")
At last, [the truth is revealed](https://sports.theonion.com/cleveland-indians-owner-admits-chief-wahoo-no-longer-co-1822530608). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/32 "2018-01-30T03:17:26Z")
That is the least ridiculous Onion article I’ve ever read! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/33 "2018-01-30T03:23:41Z")
I’m delighted. Still pulling for the Cleveland Spiders someday. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/34 "2018-01-30T04:31:01Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Americans have an extremely long history of not giving two shits about what Native Americans think on any subject. Or any minorities, for that matter. Shamefully, it sometimes takes angry white people to get something done. Which is why so many minorities want to move here. Or why there is a 1st amendment and bill of rights. Good move by mlb. Now they, NFL, NBA and others should cut ties with rap groups that use the n word and demean women. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/35 "2018-01-30T05:18:24Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Americans have an extremely long history of not giving two shits about what Native Americans think on any subject. Or any minorities, for that matter. Shamefully, it sometimes takes angry white people to get something done. You can take out the words “Americans”, “Native Americans”, and “white people” and turn this into an effective Mad Libs. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/36 "2018-01-30T15:20:03Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > Here’s an interesting and somewhat relevant [article](http://www.mondaq.com/unitedstates/x/346278/Trademark/Maintaining+US+Trademark+Registrations+Small+Uses+by+Foreign+Owners+Sufficient) about minimum use in order to maintain a trademark. > > [large chunk of prior post edited due to newfound understanding of the difference between a trademark and a service mark] > > It does indeed sound like the trademark owner can’t just make “token” use of the trademark merely to hold on to it. There has to be some legitimate attempt to use it, such as sales involving the trademark. I had hoped there would be some easy way around it. But from #4 at your link, it looks like a retail outlet on Guam would suffice. 😃 > [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Americans have an extremely long history of not giving two shits about what Native Americans think on any subject. Or any minorities, for that matter. Shamefully, it sometimes takes angry white people to get something done. All too true, sadly. > [@Intelligently\_Designed](#): > > At last, [the truth is revealed](https://sports.theonion.com/cleveland-indians-owner-admits-chief-wahoo-no-longer-co-1822530608). 😃 The Onion’s satires are often more true than the news. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/37 "2018-01-30T16:07:44Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But from #4 at your link, it looks like a retail outlet on Guam would suffice. 😃 I know people from Guam. I don’t wish to do that to the people of Guam. But it appears the US has some territorial claim to Antarctica… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/38 "2018-01-30T16:53:22Z")
Fine by me that Chief Wahoo is being relegated to that great tepee in the sky. It would have been enjoyable seeing all concerned parties aggravated by the announcement that the Chief would be replaced by a new, dignified Native American logo (perhaps one honoring Louis Sockalexis, the old-time player for the Cleveland franchise who (probably inaccurately) is seen as the inspiration for the Indians name). ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/39 "2018-01-30T17:45:18Z")
> [@Asimovian](#): > > I know people from Guam. I don’t wish to do that to the people of Guam. But it appears the US has some territorial claim to Antarctica… I lived on Guam for years. I could see the merchandise selling there. Mostly to Japanese tourists. They’d pay big bucks too. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754/40 "2018-01-30T19:17:12Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Random people selling stuff with a racist logo seems preferable to an MLB team doing it. > > But, that’s just my opinion. Right, let someone else be the asshole in this situation. > [@cmkeller](#): > > What about selling historical baseball cards, books, magazines and videos with old images on them? If they let the trademark lapse, will that mean they no longer have control over licensing those images? That’s a good question, I have no idea. Rumor is Rob Manfred told the Indians they can either host the 2019 All Star game or keep Chief Wahoo. So if the Indians aren’t completely willingly doing this, they might not care exactly how divorced they are from the logo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/cleveland-indians-remove-chief-wahoo-logo-by-2019/807754.md?page=3)