# Clever movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217 "2018-05-31T19:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/61 "2018-06-03T15:55:04Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I also like that it is easy to relate to for most people. In my case it certainly is. There are a number of choices that I can pinpoint in my life that got me to where I am today. If I had made other seemingly simple choices my life would be wildly different than it is. I think that’s true for all of us. The scenario in Butterfly Effect is super plausible - a childhood prank gone wrong, which winds up accidentally killing a woman. The prank was blowing up her mailbox with an improvised explosive. It’s the kind of thing that young teenagers fucking around could easily do in real life. The secondary and tertiary conflicts that arise from trying to alter the timelines, are social and domestic conflicts between friends and family, rather than some dire situations with earth-shaking implications. This is more relatable to people than far-flung time-travel scenarios like the one in _Inception._ ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/62 "2018-06-03T17:02:21Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I used to think The Usual Suspects was a clever film. Still love it, but I am now of the opinion that “unreliable narrator” is a very cheap way to pull off a twist ending. So is cheap misdirection. For example, killing off a suspect (faking their death), only to have them be the perpetrator later on (Christie did this with 10 Little Indians). > > One of the brilliant things about The Sixth Sense is they left little clues throughout the film so you could figure it out before the reveal if you were paying attention and a little clever yourself. See, I think you missed the clues sprinkled throughout _The Usual Suspects_ that Verbal Kent was full of shit, but masterfully playing Agent Kujan. But I also agree that the Unreliable Narrator, when used badly, is a shitty cop-out. Another vote for _12 Monkeys_. Fuckin’ brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/63 "2018-06-03T17:26:09Z")
Actually, _Saw_ was also pretty brilliant. I did not see the twist coming at all, even though Jigsaw was hiding in plain sight the _entire_ time. The writers ingeniously placed him in the room but you just figure he’s _dead_ so you totally forget that he’s even there! When he got up, my jaw was on the floor, the first time I saw that movie. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/64 "2018-06-03T17:27:45Z")
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned _The Sting_ yet. When you watch it a second time you wonder how you missed all the clues. I never guessed that hit person was a woman! ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/65 "2018-06-03T17:55:50Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > See, I think you missed the clues sprinkled throughout _The Usual Suspects_ that Verbal Kent was full of shit, but masterfully playing Agent Kujan. But I also agree that the Unreliable Narrator, when used badly, is a shitty cop-out. I think it was used to excellent effect in “The Usual Suspects” and my own take is that we end up at the end of the film still not knowing… a) what actually happened in many of the key scenes (or if they happened at all) b) whether Keyer Soze actually exists > [@](#): > > Another vote for _12 Monkeys_. Fuckin’ brilliant. agreed, it is smart, cohesive and coherent and packs an emotional punch that you really don’t expect. The thing that ties the two together for me is ambiguity, I _like_ endings that aren’t neatly tied up for me and leave me with questions forever unanswered. It can be done lazily or…as with the two examples above…in a smart way. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/66 "2018-06-05T00:03:32Z")
Seconding Adaptation and Memento. I don’t think Inception really counts as a “clever” movie. It’s one of my favorites, but much like Interstellar, you kinda sorta have to go with the idea the movie is based on and not think about it too much, or why exactly they are doing what they’re doing. I find Inception is more about Leo’s character’s coming to grips with the fact that he accidentally led to his wife’s death as he’s asked to do something similar to what led to her death, more than the actual plot of them creating the thought in Cillian Murphy’s character’s mind which is more of a framing device. The real story as I see it is rather poignant and well-crafted; the rest of the movie is just filler in order to get people watching it, but isn’t particularly “clever” about it. I started watching Following on Netflix, but I couldn’t get through it. One of the few movies I have given up completely on because it simply didn’t present to me anything entertaining. It was making me very uncomfortable watching it and I didn’t like where it was going. Maybe if I had sat through ten more minutes I would have found it to have come around, but I already had given it a lot of slack in the whole “this isn’t entertaining me” department and it was just getting worse. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/67 "2018-06-05T00:22:55Z")
I’m surprised I’m first to mention ( I think) _Brazil_. And there is no alternate ending to that for me… ---
**Author:** ![Haldurson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Haldurson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haldurson)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/68 "2018-06-05T02:33:59Z")
“The Illusionist” with Edward Norton is really clever, imho. A young boy from a lower class and a young girl of more noble standing fall in love. The girl’s family forbid her from seeing him and take her away. Years later, the boy has become a great magician, while the girl has been betrothed to the sadistic Crown prince in Vienna. It’s a love story that involves lots of twists and turns and, of course, illusion. It came out around the same time as “The Prestige”, another movie involving magicians and trickery, so most people overlooked it. However, I always thought that this was the superior, and much more clever (and heartfelt) film. The movie that really blew my mind when I was very young was Dario Argento’s “The Bird with the Crystal Plumage” (I saw it as a double feature with Hitchcock’s “Frenzy”). There’s a scene in it that they keep replaying – a person is stuck between locked glass doors at the entrance to an art gallery and witnesses a murder. I haven’t seen it in forever, but I remember it being an incredibly clever, and very scary mystery/suspense movie (especially at the age that I was at the time). ---
**Author:** ![Haldurson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Haldurson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haldurson)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/69 "2018-06-05T02:46:19Z")
> [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > I’m surprised I’m first to mention ( I think) _Brazil_. And there is no alternate ending to that for me… I LOVE “Brazil” (and “12 Monkeys” ain’t too shabby either). Regarding an ‘alternate ending’, I remember convincing my parents to watch it when it came on broadcast TV. Whoever edited for TV cut it before the ‘He’s gone’ line, so it looks like it has a happy ending.. Pissed me off. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/70 "2018-06-05T02:52:48Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I would put everything Wes Anderson ever directed in the “clever movie” category… I haven’t watched any of his other movies, but _Bottle Rocket_ instantly became my favorite movie the first time I watched it. Clever, but subtly so. And hilarious too. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/71 "2018-06-06T20:16:16Z")
Like other posters, I’m a bit unsure about what makes a movie “clever,” but I can suggest a movie that I feel is worth enjoying: Tarsem Singh’s _ **The Fall** _. Some people find it incomprehensible, while others get it right from the start. It is not at all confusing to me, but it is structured in a slightly unusual way. The visuals are gorgeous, so make sure you watch a hi-def version on a big screen. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.winston_oboogie/32/2945_2.png) [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Winston_OBoogie)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/72 "2018-06-06T20:45:46Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [How To Get Ahead In Advertising](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097531/) is a favorite of mine. I love the movie, and the concept of a true killer zit. “clever”,… not so sure. Still, Handmade Films was known for … interesting movies. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Rubber](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1612774/), about a tire that murders people by psychically exploding them, is another favorite. Um, no. This one is just bad. > [@MonkeyMensch](#): > > I’m surprised I’m first to mention ( I think) _Brazil_. And there is no alternate ending to that for me… Another Handmade film. IMHO, the greatest time travel movie (another Handmade film) is Time Bandits. Totally obliterates the concept of repercussions from changing the past. Plus, it had a microwave full of pure evil. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/73 "2018-06-06T22:00:15Z")
My all-time favorite Mystery Movie with a Twist is **The Last of Sheila** , a movie based on the real-life mystery games staged by Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins\*. The screenplay was written by Sondheim and Perkins. It features multiple mini-mysteries, and one big mystery, which, it is ultimately revealed, contains still another mystery within it. Beautifully handled, wittily written, and they play “fair”, giving you all the clues. In fact The title itself is a clue \*These games were supposed to have inspired Anthony Shaffer (brother of Peter Shaffer, who gave us \*Equus] and _Amadeus_, among many others) to wrote the play _Sleuth_, which is also about a rich, egocentric games-player playing Mind Games with his associates. So TLoS and Sleuth are sort of half-brothers. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/74 "2018-06-06T22:59:45Z")
_Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure_ - if only for the fact that our heroes realize they have a time machine and can do things in the future to affect what they do in the present. You don’t see that very often. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/75 "2018-06-06T23:55:45Z")
> [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](#): > > I haven’t watched any of his other movies, but _Bottle Rocket_ instantly became my favorite movie the first time I watched it. Clever, but subtly so. And hilarious too. Trying to wrap my head around someone seeing a Wes Anderson movie and then saying “Well, that was enough. One brilliant movie is really all I ever want to see…” I have friends (from college age to Fellow Fogies) who’ve seen everything he’s done … some multiple times. So at least try _Royal Tenenbaums_ or _Moonrise Kingdom_ (on Netflix last I checked). Oh, [here’s a list](https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/03/wes-anderson-movies-ranked-best.html) for you… ---
**Author:** ![Santelia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Santelia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santelia)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/76 "2018-06-10T14:54:49Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > _Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure_ - if only for the fact that our heroes realize they have a time machine and can do things in the future to affect what they do in the present. You don’t see that very often. _coulda sworn there’s a thumbs up icon here somewhere_ Yeah, underneath all the wacky hijinks there’s a pretty coherent time travel scenario. 12 Monkeys has definitely got better with age. I wonder if it’s because as I’ve gotten older, the idea of going back in time becomes more appealing. Remember the scene when they’re watching Vertigo (I think it was) and JC says something to the effect of “The movie seems different each time I watch it. I guess that’s because, each time, I’m different.” Of recent movies (say, last 5 years) I nominate Ex Machina. I wasn’t expecting much at all, but was really impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/77 "2018-06-10T15:40:33Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Trying to wrap my head around someone seeing a Wes Anderson movie and then saying “Well, that was enough. One brilliant movie is really all I ever want to see…” > > I have friends (from college age to Fellow Fogies) who’ve seen everything he’s done … some multiple times. So at least try _Royal Tenenbaums_ or _Moonrise Kingdom_ (on Netflix last I checked). > > Oh, [here’s a list](https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/03/wes-anderson-movies-ranked-best.html) for you… You’ll notice it’s the oldest on the list. By the time Rushmore came out, I had stopped watching movies for a while. And then just kids movies as my kids got older. I watch a LOT of sports so something had to give. I don’t subscribe to Netflix but have all the movie channels so will look for some of these. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/78 "2018-06-10T16:45:11Z")
I really enjoyed [Ex Machina](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0470752/), which is about a Turing test. I wonder, was the film’s protagonist the first to be invited to the test site? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/79 "2018-06-10T17:16:18Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I’m surprised nobody has mentioned _The Sting_ yet. When you watch it a second time you wonder how you missed all the clues. I never guessed that hit person was a woman! Yeah, I came here to post _The Sting_, too. Very clever movie. But the whole “woman hitman” thing was the one part I didn’t like. She comes to town, takes a job, sets up a whole life? That was really a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/80 "2018-06-10T18:42:14Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > But the whole “woman hitman” thing was the one part I didn’t like. > > She comes to town, takes a job, sets up a whole life? That was really a stretch. … Unless the whole thing was arranged by her “employer.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217.md?page=5)