# Clever movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 31, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217 "2018-05-31T19:52:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/81 "2018-06-10T20:13:00Z")
> [@Haldurson](#): > > I LOVE “Brazil” (and “12 Monkeys” ain’t too shabby either). Regarding an ‘alternate ending’, I remember convincing my parents to watch it when it came on broadcast TV. Whoever edited for TV cut it before the ‘He’s gone’ line, so it looks like it has a happy ending.. Pissed me off. Not just an alternate ending, a whole alternate version. The head of Universal Studios at the time, Sid Sheinberg, disliked the movie and didn’t want to release it. He used a contractual loophole (the original version was a few minutes longer than specified) to delay the American release and get his own editors working on an alternate version that would play up the love story and have a happy ending. Terry Gilliam managed to show his version to some film critics and with good word-of-mouth from them he waged a rather public feud with Sheinberg to get his version released. In the end, there were three versions; the original cut (shown in Europe), a slightly shortened version to try to satisfy the contract (shown in American theaters, but without much studio support), and the so-called “love conquers all” version done by Universal (which was shown at least once on television). ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/82 "2018-06-10T20:24:43Z")
_Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story,_ a biopic about a fictional musician, comes with a fantastic soundtrack in which the songs are actually sung by the actor playing Cox (John C. Reilly), and sound like they could actually have been hits during those time periods. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/83 "2018-06-10T21:26:58Z")
> [@Rocketeer](#): > > I really enjoyed [Ex Machina](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0470752/), which is about a Turing test. I wonder, was the film’s protagonist the first to be invited to the test site? As an ex-Computer Science prof I found all CS stuff profoundly stupid. Worse, the movie was incredibly derivative. Anti-clever in my book. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/84 "2018-06-10T21:53:33Z")
Just wanted to mention _The Conversation_, with Gene Hackman. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/85 "2018-06-10T22:17:36Z")
**Edge of Tomorrow** - Who doesn’t want to see Tom Cruise getting killed by aliens over and over again. **Scott Pilgrim vs The World** - Odd mix of indie rock, anime, videogames and Canadian sensibilities **Hardcore Henry** - Insane spectacle of crazy parkour stunts, over the top violence and bizarre Sharlto Copley characters shot from the perspective of the silent protagonist using GoPro cameras. \*\*Step Brothers \*\*- Will Farrell and John C Reilly as two 40 years old man-children forced to live together when their parents marry. Boats and hos. Fucking Catalina Wine Mixer. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/86 "2018-06-10T23:07:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I was very disappointed by _Inception_. There’s all this hype about how it’s layers within layers of dreams within dreams, and yet in the movie itself, three layers is considered unprecedented and amazing? I’ve had dreams seven layers deep before, and it was no big deal. And they never really take full advantage of the potential of a dreamscape-- The only times it really got “dreamy” were when the characters were doing “don’t do that”. Like, that freight train down the middle of the street? That should have been what passed for normal, in a dreamscape. It felt like the dream mechanic was just an excuse to cram in over-the-top action-movieism and to handwave it away as being consequence-free. > > But I’m surprised that I’m only the second to mention _12 Monkeys_. It’s really hard to make a time travel story that holds together (_Back to the Future_, for instance, most certainly does not), but so far as I can tell, _12 Monkeys_ handled it flawlessly. Agree on both movies. _Inception_was disappointing for exactly the reasons you stated. That final action sequence in the snow was just boring. I just felt worn out at the end…and not in a good way. More in a “well, glad that’s over.” I liked _Twelve Monkeys_ a lot but it’s source – _La Jetée_ – was even better for being tighter, and the use of still frames gave it a nice eerie vibe. I remember the first time I saw it in 1968? or 1969? and how it knocked me on my butt. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/87 "2018-06-10T23:13:40Z")
> [@Haldurson](#): > > “The Illusionist” with Edward Norton is really clever, imho. A young boy from a lower class and a young girl of more noble standing fall in love. The girl’s family forbid her from seeing him and take her away. Years later, the boy has become a great magician, while the girl has been betrothed to the sadistic Crown prince in Vienna. It’s a love story that involves lots of twists and turns and, of course, illusion. It came out around the same time as “The Prestige”, another movie involving magicians and trickery, so most people overlooked it. However, I always thought that this was the superior, and much more clever (and heartfelt) film. I agree with you. I found the characters in _The Prestige_ unrealistic and not very believable. It seemed like a puzzle movie that existed only for the puzzle. My best friend and I agree on nearly everything, and we nearly had a fight over this one…both her and her husband preferred _The Prestige_ over_The Illusionist_. One we completely agreed on was _Stay_. I love that movie! And it was clever. Now, there’s a movie that really captured what a dreamscape is like. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/88 "2018-06-11T12:40:43Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Just wanted to mention _The Conversation_, with Gene Hackman. Oh, yes. Watching Harry Caul do his thing tweaking the recording over and over until he could make out the conversation. And that’s just an anchor to the whole rest of the intricate plot. Ending with Harry ripping the crap out of his apartment looking for the bug. It was too complicated even for him! ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/89 "2018-06-11T12:52:28Z")
[**The Usual Suspects (Kevin Spacey)**](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114814/) That movie had me guessing until almost the very end! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/90 "2018-06-11T14:26:14Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I used to think The Usual Suspects was a clever film. Still love it, but I am now of the opinion that “unreliable narrator” is a very cheap way to pull off a twist ending. I love “The Usual Suspects” but agree the movie really is not clever at all, in the sense I would use that term. There is no indication AT ALL that Verbal Kint is Keyser Soze. Even in retrospect, it doesn’t really make any sense, anyway. The story simply isn’t logical on any level. Conversely, “The Sixth Sense” absolutely does tell you that Crowe is dead, but does so using such clever tricks of filmmaking that you don’t realize it until the reveal. More importantly, it is a critical part of the plot and theme of the film. Kint being Soze is just a jump scare. Again, I liked “The Usual Suspects” and I’ll watch it again anytime you want; cleverness is just a characteristic of a movie. To us msmith537’s example, I wholeheartedly agree “Scott Pilgrim Vs. The World” was a very clever movie, but I did not really enjoy it all that much except when I got to watch Mary Elizabeth Winstead, and “Hardcore Henry” is even more clever and I enjoyed it even less, except when I got to watch Sharlto Copley. I am waiting for a really clever movie that has both Mary Elizabeth Winstead and Sharlto Copley in it, for which I’ll pay fifty bucks to see. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/91 "2018-06-11T15:12:29Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Um, no. This one is just bad. Um, no. You just don’t like it. That’s fine. I like it; it’s still a favorite of mine. ---
**Author:** ![Flare4roach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7cd45c/32.png) [@Flare4roach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flare4roach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/92 "2018-06-11T15:42:42Z")
> [@Dr.Winston\_OBoogie](#): > > Another Handmade film. > > IMHO, the greatest time travel movie (another Handmade film) is Time Bandits. Totally obliterates the concept of repercussions from changing the past. Plus, it had a microwave full of pure evil. Ya beat me to it! I was going to post Time Bandits as well. There is so much going on here with the concept, directing, acting, etc. I loved this movie as a young man and still dig it. So many memorable lines in this. “Nipples for men!” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/93 "2018-06-11T17:23:58Z")
> [@ekedolphin](#): > > _Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story,_ a biopic about a fictional musician, comes with a fantastic soundtrack in which the songs are actually sung by the actor playing Cox (John C. Reilly), and sound like they could actually have been hits during those time periods. I love this movie and it’s soundtrack, but most people seem to have some real hate for it. Not quite _Santa Sangre_ levels of hate, but hate nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/94 "2018-06-11T17:36:20Z")
Here’s a few more favorites: [Run Lola Run](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0130827/) [Bunraku](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1181795/) [Dave Made A Maze](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4457344/) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/95 "2018-06-11T17:40:56Z")
> [@carrps](#): > > Agree on both movies. _Inception_was disappointing for exactly the reasons you stated. That final action sequence in the snow was just boring. I just felt worn out at the end…and not in a good way. More in a “well, glad that’s over.” I actually felt “worn out at the end” but in a good way. Although, in the back of my mind, I always kind of felt that the actual stakes of incepting the idea of selling the company into some dude’s mind didn’t quite live up to all the massive effort that went into it. > [@carrps](#): > > I agree with you. I found the characters in _The Prestige_ unrealistic and not very believable. It seemed like a puzzle movie that existed only for the puzzle. My best friend and I agree on nearly everything, and we nearly had a fight over this one…both her and her husband preferred _The Prestige_ over_The Illusionist_. I liked both films, but felt that the main difference was that the deus ex machina in The Prestige was a teleportation machine while in The Illusionist it was having convincing turn of the century hologram technology and that magic drug they use in all the movies so that he could fake Countess vonWhoever’s death. The Prestige felt a bit more grounded in reality to me (Nicola Tesla aside) whereas the Illusionist felt more like it needed CGI and plot devices to move the story. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/96 "2018-06-11T17:59:38Z")
_ **Start the Revolution without Me.** _ \*“I shall be King.” “And I shall be Queen.”\* ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/97 "2018-06-11T18:25:52Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And by the same writer, [Adaptation](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0268126/). Which is intricate and brilliant and which I’m going to have to watch again since I got what Kaufman was doing only about half way through the movie. Adaptation is a movie about how hard it was to write the script to Adaptation. Yet it is really entertaining throughout and not self indulgent. Really clever. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/98 "2018-06-11T18:29:03Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I would put everything Wes Anderson ever directed in the “clever movie” category I was going to respond to this, but then I saw that someone posted what I’d want to respond, so I multiquoted: > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I think there’s a fine line between “clever” and “fucked-up, overly-confusing, pretentious nonsense.” and now as I’m typing these words I realize I’m quoting you BOTH TIMES! Anderson is clever as shit, no doubt, but I hate his movies so much. His navel is a hall of infinite mirrors, and whatever story he tries to tell ends up about his boring ass self. Recently I watched **Inside Llewyn Davis** , the Coen Brothers movie about a sad-sack folk musician. I loved it, but about a third of the way into it I realized the protagonist was very nearly an Anderson protagonist, and I cordially hate Anderson’s protagonists. What’s the difference? I’m not real sure, why Llewyn Davis by the Coen Brothers makes me empathize with him whereas Anderson’s Llewyn Davis would surely make me want to set the folk musician on fire. It may be that Anderson’s cleverness works against him, for me. I adore things like Being John Malkovich and Inception and also weird-ass books–but dollhouse cleverness in the service of upper-middle-class white-middle-aged neuroses just makes me stabby. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/99 "2018-06-11T18:59:10Z")
[King of Hearts](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060908/) was great fun. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2018, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217/100 "2018-06-11T19:07:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [King of Hearts](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060908/) was great fun. That movie ran for an unbroken more than four year run at the Central Square Cinema in Cambridge, Massachusetts back in the 1970s. I thought it was moderately clever, but wasn’t a huge fan. I’m sure it was the high student turnover in the area (It got folks from Harvard, MIT, and Tufts) enabled this quirky film to keep going for so long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clever-movies/815217.md?page=6)